Shivering Isles kinda svcks imo : IV - Oblivion

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:58 am

this falls into the same boat as "Why do people seem fairly normal?", if this is meant to be the realm of madness, why can you make intelligent conversation with everyone? etc etc....

Reason: This is a game that needs to be fun. How this applies to your comment, if everything was crazy it would be impossible to find your way and do this, it would be too confusing and wouldnt work as a game mechanic.

I agree. Very well put. :thumbsup:

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:49 am

Yeah, because it'd cost too much time and money for bethesda to redo a new game for the sake of saying that Sheogorath changed his little town. It all boils down to how much time and money Bethesda wants to put into the game. Every plant and piece of dialogue and armor is time and money spent on Bethesda's part. But if ZeniMax gave them a bunch of bonuses and increased their deadline, then I'm sure a lot of other things could have been done.

When are these Bethesda / Oblivion hate going to end? Disliking SI because the way it looks, plays and feel is OK. Talking **** about the company business decision is BS.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:55 pm

It's the realm of Sheogorath, not http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vaernima. Almost all of the things you described are already in the game, in Vaermina's http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vaermina. Vaermina's realm is described as follows, in the book "http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion". Sheogorath's realm should not be THAT.

If you want to know the truth. The fact that you find the state of Sheogorath's realm so "maddening" at present, as in, the degree in which it irks you - that fits DIRECTLY with his personality. Ever read the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Myths_of_Sheogorath? Drove a guy mad by doing absolutely nothing. Not at all what the guy expected, but boy did he drive him crazy with it.

I think it's funny.

If you want to go crazy in THAT sense, watch Das Boot, the extended version. It drives you mad just watching those guys in that submarine for hours and hours. But that's not really the kind of madness I was getting at, as Cyrodiil is pretty much just as barren as SI. Bethesda didn't want to spend months and months extra adding in tedious little items all over the world to make it look more "lived in". That stuff is up to us fans to mod in.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:39 pm

Maybe the game didn't match your expectations, but I think SI is the second-best thing Bethesda have done (after Fallout 3).

Yes, they took bits from Morrowind: the best bits. The nasty, itching, paranoia of the factions and the outright weirdness of the setting.

The quests are wonderful, recogniseable explorations of mental illness from the mundanity of addiction (trust me, if you've ever smoked cigarettes in your life, you'll click with the chalice quest) to the depravity of the quests for the Duke and Duchess.

Did they do what you thought they would do? Patently not, but I don't think they did a bad job. Again, I think if SI was a standalone game on the scale of Oblivion, it would be about the best thing Bethesda have made.

Suffice to say, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I think if they'd have done it the way you clearly wanted it, I personally would have rejected it as "overdone". I think they got the balance just right. The thing about mad people is that they don't go around with potatoes on their head yelling WOW, AREN'T I WACKY?!

Thus it is with Shivering Isles - it has to be a "normal sort of mad" in order to function.

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:26 am

I was playing the Shivering Isles expansion for the first time last night and I was rather disappointed. This is supposed to be the realm of Oblivion that represents insanity. Well, it just looked like they took a few designs from Morrowind and stuck them in Cyrodiil. It looks absolutely nothing like "insanity". It should look like M.C. Escher or something:
I seriously think they should have waited until they had better technology to do the Insanity realm. 2007 technology didn't do justice at all. Looks just like another mundane island.

You know what's cool about opinions and interpretations? There are lots of them. The look of SI wasn't your thing. Oh well. :shrug: I thought it was pretty cool looking and a cool change of pace from the traditional medieval setting of Cyrodiil - I like it for the same reason I like Ayleid Ruins and Dwemer ruins. It looks cool.

You comments about 2007 technology aren't really that relevant to the argument of artistic interpretation - if you were the lead artist for the game, maybe it would have looked different, regardless of when the game was made. But you weren't.

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:20 am

I'm not saying it's awful; it is great considering the graphics, etc... I just don't think it does an "insanity realm" justice is all. In my taste, it's not "insane/mad" hardly at all, but Da Mage made a good point which is that the game has to be playable and enjoyable. If it's so obscure and confusing to play then it'll just get complaints. But yeah, it would be pretty fun on a much larger scale.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:44 pm

different people, different tastes.

There's no accounting for taste (or lack there of).

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:02 pm

OP sounds like a stoner who only *thinks* they know what madness should be like.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:58 pm

I to, was disappointed heavily.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:15 pm

I to, was disappointed heavily.

I too, have become annoyed by vague complaints.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:17 pm

I too, have become annoyed by vague complaints.

If you're annoyed with this thread then why are you reading it?

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:48 pm

If you're annoyed with this thread then why are you reading it?

My comment was not directed at you. It was directed at the vague complaint made by one of the above posters.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:13 pm

Oh my bad.

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:14 am

Oh my bad.

No worries. As I said earlier, I believe all people are entitled to their opinion of the game. I just hate to see a vague claim with absolutely no reason behind it other than the purpose of complaining. You brought your own reasons to the table and I respect that.

Now, I shall stop this from becoming a spam-fest and wander elsewhere. Continue your constructive criticism of the game...or each other

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:34 pm

How would you even begin to play a (game) as described by you as the realm of madness? I looked at your first youtube vid, its neat visuals but you cant make a game outa that, all the comments are negitive for that ps3 game. I think beth did good with shivering isle, its thier game, thier lore, they make the rules, and i thought its was pretty neat.

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:39 am

Madness, insanity, same thing in a nutshell.
http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/index1.shtml#sheogorath

And it looks like Morrowind because of all the mushroom stuff. That's what I meant.

A realm that represents madness/insanity should be more insane and mad, landscape, people, dialugue, quests. It should be like like you're on drugs in my opinion. Realms in Oblivion should look far different from realms on Mundus, and defy natural laws that the mundus has. When you first go into SI with those butterflies flying away was cool. But other than that, the whole place looked like a place on Tamriel. They need to make these "other worldly" realms a lot more "other worldly".

How would they do that? It is other-worldly. The people are insane, the dialogue is insane, the quests are also insane. Have you met people in the Shivering Isles or heard them speak? They are insane. How do you want an insane realm by your definition to exist in the game? Insanity by your definition could not exist in a game and it couldn't work with an Elder Scrolls game. The Shivering Isles was great, in my opinion, and it was very insane and strange.

» Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:12 pm

From what I remember, there were also a heap of complaints about oblivion's generic fantasy feeling after morrowind, which had a alot more uniqueness in it.

I believe the way it looks is party because of that, people said they liked morrowind's visual style with mushroom trees and whatnot, so that is what got put into SI.

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:36 am

Mad implies insanity, but people these days think anything they wouldn't do is insane. They are words, nothing more - and as always, are subject to their common usage and acceptance in society.

You used to have to be insane to admit you were gay. And now people do it all the time. People in Oblivion call you "mad" or insane when you murder someone, but people in real life who commit murder 90% of the time are poor, stupid fools who can't hardly hold down a job. That doesn't make them insane, it just makes them an idiot. And they get caught, and spend the rest of their lives in jail for some stupid mistake.

"Mad" as we know it, does not mean insane, as we gamers envision it. Technically "insanity" isn't even a psychologically accepted term. It is a legal term, and when used as a defense in court, almost always fails. In psychology, you are not insane, you have a mental illness - a specific mental illness, that in order to be specified, has to meet very specific requirements. Most of the time these requirements are simple labels such as "Poses a danger to themselves or others" or "Continued behavior that is not socially acceptable." (Along with several other, more specific qualifications.)

But again, these qualifications don't necessarily mean "insane" or crazy vaporized floating backwards staircases and episodes of mania.

A good portion of the time, they just mean "other than the norm". Or quite frequently "Idiotic."

Both of which can be found in excess, in the Shivering Isles.

It is also worth noting, that as the Mad God, lore and books seem to point to Sheogorath's love for screwing with people, fellow daedric princes, everyone. And if his realm was truly "insane" as you would like to see it, people would flat out not exist or be able to coincide. His realm follows his personality, while consequently allowing for the personalities and existances of his followers and as a result, partial "entertainment". Read some books about his playing with people's minds and fooling daedric princes, and you'll have even more reasons as to why his realm exists as it does.

that just about hits the nail on the head right there. the technical def of "mad" is some form of insanity and is not linked to a particular emotion as we so often use it to mean. You might also want to remember that insanity, or madness, is not always so easy to spot. An insane, or mad person could look and act totally fine, until you talk to them that is. Such is the instance of Sheogorath. He looks like a relatively harmless old man sitting on his throne, until you talk to him that is... and as Two said, a person could be characterized as insane just because they do something out of the ordinary. That argonian that is always running around comes to mind, or how about that Khajiit in, I believe "Things Found" that has you collect those odd objects for the "end of the world", or how about that guy that is always cowering, claiming that the walls are going to fall on him? Those individuals would be characterized as insane because they act different than what is considered socially acceptable. Why, i think the only sane individuals in the entire realm besides you are the dark seducers and golden saints. At least i havnt seen them do anything odd...

» Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:35 am

I think this thread is rather too much unconstructive complaining and complaints-about-the-complainers. Given the amount of swipes and name-calling in here, I think it's best if I just lock this one up.