A.) are these new things from MK being but in TIL's collection of things by MK? *cough* proweler *cough* Lady N *cough* Xan *cough* Adanorcil *cough* B *cough* Who'd i miss? *cough*

B.) Personally i also vote that Rhoark's thing goes in the FSG or something.

but we aren't supposed to talk about other forums here so don't spend too much time answering.

*cough* Luagar2*cough*

I think he's listing librarians.

Yea, it'll be there, eventually.

Roark and everyone else is welcome to submit their stuff to the FSG. We need to test our procedures for that stuff anyways.

Love it, thank you!

yea, i was listing ppl who could add it.

And understood.

Ty MK - i've been trying to find the original again for ages - and only just discovered that one side effect of the frog's-eyeball pills they give me is memory loss which explains a lot

Kyne had taken the head of Magnar, the jarl that betrayed the weakness of our spear-lines and fled the field. Shor shook his scaled mane. "That isn't Magnar," he said, "Magnar, I fear, fell at sunrise and became replaced by mirrors. The other chieftains are using our forms to lead us astray."

Our Queen merely nodded to her War-Husband and shouted us back to the fields of our enemies, towards a weakened spot among their spear-lines that Magnar our scout would light for us.

I like these.

A thing of beauty.

That is all.

Truly amazing.

And listening to this on repeat improved the mood:
http://www.youtuberepeat.com/watch/?v=KcgkzXpBawg

The cheery optimism of the Nords is a lesson for us all

If I had a septim for every MK text I didn't understand.

I was very proud of myself for getting through the first half, butI need this to be nutshelled. What exactly does the Shor-Ald and Shor-Shor dialogue at the end mean? I get the vague feeling that it represents the overturning of the previous kalpa to the next, but I don't exactly get what suggests that.

In this piece, the Dawn Era is portrayed as a war between a variety of divine clans, rather than individual gods. Thus within what has traditionally been imagined as a single god, there are aspects of all the other gods; within the identity "Shor" there is a Kyne Shorsdotter, and, by implication, within "Kyne" there is also a Shor Kynesson, and so forth. Thus, the fractal and recursive nature of the mythos is demonstrated even more literally than ever before.

The repetitious nature of the mythical history is emphasized by the nearly identical phrase given to Shor-son-of-Shor by Ald and by Shor the father. I would not attempt to rephrase the advice in a way that captures its nuance, but it argues that by adopting their roles as the dichotomous gods, they will never be able to escape their cyclical reality, the endless kalpas which are always the same but only slightly different. First, Ald cautions Shor that by ushering in the new, he will begin that same war over again, and it will all end the same. Then, Shor reminds Shor that, by fighting against Shor's meddling, Ald will have to fight that same war as well. They are doomed to repeat "the awful fighting" for all time unless someone breaks the mold.

At the end of it all, Shor makes the same choice he has always made - "And the awful fighting began again."

Much obliged. That's a very helpful insight.

I must've been more tired than I thought to have missed that.

What I particularly like is how this whole world-narrative is also set up as a cyclic story making explicit reference to a prologue and ending.

So, unless I'm mistaken, this text is a description of the Nordic Pantheon's fractal individuality during the entire duration of each Kalpa. Can someone shed some light on the nature of this "fighting"? What is supposed to be represented by the fighting. Is Shor and his head-identities warring with Ald and his?

It could be a perspective of the various "belief-based" pantheon, where each pantheon is fighting against other pantheons through worship and such to determine which "perspective" is the dominant one. Since it's from a Nordic point of view, they use Nordic names.

Then again, I may be completely wrong, and I need more time to adjust. MK's writings are not my forte in Elder Scrolls lore. In fact, half the time I feel like I've scrubbed my brain with a cheese grater after reading them.

Its the war in the Dawn era, which, if you've read http://imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/World-Eating_101.html, was really the end of the previous kalpa. Its a retelling of the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-monomyth, which just happens to be the apocalypse myth, too.

I think this is really interesting but I'm confused by the forgetting of "above" and "below". What exactly are "Ald son of Ald" and "Shor son of Shor" each forgetting? Any hints?

Imagine you're standing outside (as in, not in a building). What's above you and what's below you? Now consider also the metaphorical connotations of "above" and "below."

Ald = Alduin = Nordic version of Akatosh.

Shor = Nordic version of Lorkhan.

Maybe this is what Dumbkid meant to say (I haven't the faintest idea what his post actually means behind the metaphor), but if you know the background you can see that its a pretty straightforward reference to the past and the futur kalpas, or versions of the world. This story represents the Dawn as an intermission in the middle of "awful fighting." Recorded history is the awful fighting.

Thus, Alduin, who is traditionally portrayed as against the "creation" of the world, diminishes the new kalpa, while Shor diminishes the old one.

I see that there is much I need to re-learn in order to get my head twisted over this and misinterpret things again but I guess I have plenty of time to do that until Tes V.

Nice to still see so many Lore Masters and Librarians of old

I thought of that but assumed I was wrong. I couldn't make sense of "above that still is only a scribe that hasn't written anything yet". Having a "scribe" for unwritten kalpas below the new kalpa makes sense to me but having a "scribe" for unwritten kalpas above the old confuses me.

Is it because time is a circle? So, below the current kalpa is the future but above the past kalpa is also the future? Or am I just completely misunderstanding the "scribe"?

Yeah, I'm lost.

When I come across the "as above, so below" concept in occult literature I always think of a fractal but I'm pretty amateur in these things.

try the Lord's Prayer: "on earth as it is in heaven" - different but has something of the same ring to it

also again different there may be a resonance between the Shor son of Shor thing and the ancient idea of the three females = maid/innocent, mother and crone being part of the same thing = femalness in it's three aspects simultaneously represented by three people/beings/avatars