In oblivion there is practically no point in using short blades or daggers
There has to be some sort of advantage to using a dagger/ SB apart from swinging it at a faster rate which is still hard because to need to get even closer
Using a long blade was much easier to use because of the distance and damage aspect
Im my own opinion there should be special moves or some reason to stick to the shorter blades

Shorter blades advantages should be

-Lighter
-Faster
-Better for stealth (higher damage and less likely to make noise alerting others)
-Harder to damage

And of course there should be a skill for each like in Morrowind.

Simplest solution is to do the long blade/short blade split again like in Morrowind.

How the split is done can go down different ways:

actual separate skills like in Morrowind

only give short blades the sneak multiplier bonus, therefore giving people reason to use them.

or both of the above

True, they have to find a way to make short blades usefull in some way and i have an idea. and it goes like that

1.You must first devide back the blade skill in short and long blade.

2.You now have the choice between long and short blade.

Long Blade: More powerfull and you get the Claymore wich is awesome

Short Blade: You get the short Blade wich is less powerful than a Long Blade and cannot be concealed. BUT!!!!! you are also better with the Dagger wich can be concealed with a certain level of sneak like in New Vegas.


I know people dont like to hear ideas coming out of new vegas but it is a realy realy nice way to give a meaning to get a Dagger instead of a Claymore

I would have to agree with the both of the above solution. Short Blades for stealth, Long Blades for action.

Yeah I think splitting them again is a must. I'm playing a thief type character right now and I'd really like to use daggers as my main weapon as it seems more appropriate. But with blade being my main skill anyway there's no real advantage to it and just end up using swords because they do more damage.

There is already reason to use a dagger rather than a claymore: the use of a shield.

However, there was not really any compelling reason to use a dagger over a longsword in Oblivion since both are one-handed, goverened by the same skill, and get the same sneak bonus.

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I include Long Blades in my Long Blades skill you know? this mean you can still get a better weapon wich a shield (a long blade) wich is why my solution gives a real meaning to the Dagger since you could sneak a dagger in places where guards would search you for weapons and stuff like that

I am saying your example of dagger vs claymore makes no sense, not your concept

Your concept doesn't make any sense for a different reason: you aren't forbidden from bringing weapons anywhere, those places all your stuff is confiscated from you you could mess with the games if you can kill with a dagger still, sheathing/unsheathing your weapon is very simple to do, having an unsheathed weapon only warrants a 10 point disposition drop, and you could just have a backup dagger with you at all times to get the bonus of being able to sneak a dagger in anywhere.

the bound weaponry spells/other damage-dealing spells further make your idea kinda useless: you can summon a weapon anywhere and you can cast those spells anywhere.

I opposed the long blade skill to the short blade skill in general.

With long blade you get Long Swords and Claymores

With Short Blade you get weaker swords and concealable daggers. get it?

They just have to add the fact that your stuff can be confiscated. Its Skyrim were talking about not oblivion. they can add this feature to the game if they want and make areas where you cant bring weapons just like in New Vegas Its just logic that you cant bring a weapon in a throne room for example but. they can forbid you to bring weapons in places for reasons other than not allowing you to kill people like making the game more realistic


And about the summoning thing not everybody is a mage and can summon a weapon anywhere they want or is willing to buy a scroll for that

I stand my point my concept is good

And I am saying concealable daggers is a non-point in the world of bound weapons and general foundation of TES. What you are describing would have not offered a dagger user any benefit in Morrowind or Oblivion, and without significant overhaul, wouldn't offer a dagger user any benefit in Skyrim either.


But as I said, you are forgetting about the magic aspect of TES. Bound weapon spells/general damage-dealing spells negate any such benefit.

I think they should go back to Morrowind's system of a split between the two. While they are both blades, they are very unique skills, that is wielding a claymore is a different skill from wielding a dagger. If they decided to go down this path there would be balancing issues that need to be addresses, as others have stated, the short swords are generally weaker and their speed advantage is negligible.

k well bottom line Short Blades and long blades need to be separated or at-least given the own respectable advantages

And as i said not everybody is a damn mage. if they bring back the spell failure on top of that and youre not good in conjuration. wich is not a very good skill to have if youre not a pure mage. the point to conceal a weapon in places where you might be forbiden to bring one now comes handy again.

just think about options for every gameplay styles and the fact that they MIGHT add these kind of areas to the game and my concept makes alot of sense

While I partially believe that Short and Long blade are separate skills, they are also related. I'm guessing a guy who's good with a sword can probably fight with a knife...not sure if the reverse is true.

BUT in addition to being faster, lighter, and easier to conceal (I hope a high Security skill allows you to "hide" weapons in some situations) one advantage of shortblades that they haven't implemented in any game is that they are infinitely better at point blank combat than a sword.

Imagine being attacked by a wolf. Unless you catch him with a swing mid jump, he lands on your chest and goes for your throat. If you had a sword, you'd be too close to get a proper swing in, you just can't angle the blade that way. But if you have a knife, the point can actually be even with your chest (if your arm is folded by your side) and you can get a full length thrust into your opponent.

-A system along the lines of the doomstones in Oblivion would make your point moot even for the non-mages

-People may choose to quickly level up conjuration just for that purpose (which also was the fastest skill to level up in Oblivion). The option for having the dagger hidden would be shortblade + sneak, whereas for long blade users it would be long blade + conjuration. Same amount of skills needed and completely negates what is a very minor bonus for a significant cut in weapon power.

so, I stand by my assertion that it is not even close to being enough and is virtually a non-point.

I accually said this a month ago:

Daggers should have a huge sneak attack critical, but not able to have as strong enchantments as short/long blades. (4 fire dmg/20 uses?)
Critical bonus: x10

Long blades would be the weapon of favor of those who combat face-2-face, having high enchanments, with almost none extra damage from sneaks (15 fire dmg/50 uses?)
Critical bonus: x2

Short blade would be in between, medium enchantment, but still solid sneak attack (8 fire dmg/35 uses?)
Critical bonus: x5-x6.

This would be great

This needs to be quoted more.

I'm also reasonably sure the sneak multiplier represents the ease with which short blades can be used to target weak spots in armor or vital areas on un-armored enemies. This could be applied to general combat so a short blades have a higher chance of critically hitting opponents but damage to protected areas is small.

I really do think that the Short Blade and Long Blade skills should be seperate.

I mean, if a guy can handle a dagger, I'm sure he can't one day just pick up a giant claymore and be amazing at it.

I was more thinking along the lines of an 'assassination' action that takes into account sneak and short blade skill.

For example, someone in a bed should be killed by a low short blade skill and a low sneak, but you need much be much better at it to kill someone standing up.

More OT, Short Blades and Long Blades MUST be separated. How does skill with a sabre affect how good you are with a dagger?

Maybe they should just give Short Swords a higher sneak attack multiplier, and Daggers even higher.

Or maybe just like: if you choose blade as a skill, and when you click it in the skills menu it "opens" as 2 subskills, long and short blade.

I used short swords and daggers in Oblivion for stealth.

Bad choice, long swords were sadly most powerful sneaking weapons in Oblivion... And daggers best none stealth weapons due to the high attack pace and enchantments.

Ok, so I think the relevant question here is what tradeoffs there are between short and long blades: if you choose a longsword over a dagger, what do you gain, but what do you give up (and vice versa). Or rather, given that long blades typically do more damage than short blades - and, therefore, do better at the major role of weapons - for what reason would one choose a short blade over a long one? I don't think the points I'm making are original, but perhaps I can offer some further interesting thoughts on what the upshot should be.

The first point, I think, should be speed, agility, and fatigue. Longer blades are heavier and more cumbersome. They should be slower and use up more fatigue. This shouldn't mean that the damage dealt over time by a dagger should get close that of a longer sword (ie. because you can do more attacks per unit of time with the dagger, and you'll deal proportionally higher damage for consecutive swings with a dagger), but rather that (i) because you can complete a swing in less time, you are less vulnerable to counterattack (you can swing, then dodge, etc.), and (ii) with less fatigue you are better able to cast spells, dodge, run, etc.

The point about close range fighting strikes me as a good one, but I'm not sure how this could be implemented. Do you simply just reduce the damage dealt by a long blade if the distance between you and the enemy is too little?

I'm not entirely persuaded about giving extra damage multipliers to sneak attacks with daggers. If you can sneak up behind someone and stab them with a dagger, it doesn't seem too implausible that you could also sneak up behind them and take off their head with a longsword. If you think that daggers are better for stealth kills, it seems like it should be because it's easier to sneak around with a dagger than a longsword - the longsword is more awkward, so you might make more noise, etc. So perhaps a penalty to your sneak ability if you are carrying too large weapons?

Does this mean there should be two different skills? I'm not sure. That depends on a bunch of other things - like how leveling up works, how increasing attributes works, etc. But I think the crucial thing to keep in mind here is to make the weapon choices have fairly clear pros and cons, so that even if there's only a single Blade skill, there might still be some good reasons to choose short blades over long blades. And it seems like that could still be done.