If you wanna do this on a diffrent forum, make a 'Talk This' forum and just post the top 3 for eac genre

I have no high status (nor do I have much writing ability), but thank you for being nice.

Actually, there were only a few people who kicked up a fuss over that. And to be honest, I felt some sympathy. The competition we'd run before it had given every story feedback, and we'd had very few problems. The issues with the last one were based around three factors:

1. The scoring system. Which wouldn't have been an issue if we'd said what the scoring system would have entailed before the competition started. Live and learn eh?

2. The feedback issue. For the competition previous to that, evry judge had given every story feedback, and explained how we'd made our decisions. Not one person complained as to their placing or about the system, because it was clear and explained. Which was fine with 8-10 stories. The last competition got so many entries, with some of the long entries coming in at over 100,000 words in a couple of cases, that we simply didn't have the time. A word limit solves that issue, as the judges can give feedback in every case. Might be worth adding a story limit as well, say a maximum of 1 per person can be entered. I know that seems obvious, but more prolific writers might well want to add more than one to improve their chances. I recommend against that.

3. The ego issue and the clarity issue. By which I mean two things. Again, the competition prior to that had been scored in 2 ways. 50% by judges decision (where Treydog, Minque and myself) gave 1 point for 8th place, 2 for 7th, 3 for 6th and so on - rather than individual scores marking on grammar etc - and 50% by public vote. We explained through feedback why we'd put what story where. No issues. The public explained their choices. No issues. The last comp was just the judges, and as already explained, there were far too many entries and of too great a length. The problem being our reasons weren't clear, and people had no real way of seeing how those decisions had been made. Like I said, I had a huge amount of sympathy for them, the judging system was clearly flawed. Even so, it was only a few people. And that was the ego issue. It wasn't a competition just for fun and practise. The introduction of prizes and judges from Bethesda itself, whilst great, raised those competitive urges to levels we hadn't anticipated. That shouldn't really be an issue here, given the stated reasons given by Darkom95 for running it. Just so long as everyone keeps that in mind when they start getting results and feedback in.

p.s. Seeing as how the poll has changed, and anyone who voted prior cannot vote again, let me add my vote for the new poll here.

Should the judges face the same anonymity of the public?
Yes, the judges should not be allowed to know the author
No, the judges should know the author

Nope, anonymous throughout, until the results are displayed right at the very end.

How long should the stories be? Word Limit:
1,000-3,000
3,000-5,000
5,000-7,500
7,500-10,000 (Novelette length)

1000-3000. Anything over that, given how many entries may come in, and you make life for the judges (whoever the judges for this will be) very difficult. Plus, you want as many people to read these as possible. Some people will be put off by large amounts of text staring at them. Minimum of 1000, maximum of 3000 I actually think is quite sensible.

Since I can't vote again either, I'd like to second Burnt sierra

Me too.

Indeed, I figured, but I don't want to make any assumptions as to what is a good idea.

I was unaware there was already something like this. Judges from Bethesda, you say :drool: Anyway, yeah, one story per person and there should be enough judges to take care of things. I hope

Judge, single. Gstaff to be exact. It was a mix of judges from different sites, as the competition was meant to be a community effort. So judges from TES Nexus, The Imperial Library, Tamriel Rebuilt, UESP, Elderscrolls.net, Planet Elder Scrolls and Alex and I from Chorrol. And I wouldn't say this is exactly like that. In retrospect, there was a lot wrong with how we did that competition, though we naturally did it with the best of intentions. The positive of course, as is always the case in these situations, was the stories. We got some really terrific entries.

This sounds like it will be less strict, and more based on fun and practise, whilst involving other readers in the judging. And that to me is a good thing.

Well that's good news. Let me know if there is anything else that went wrong with that one that we're doing here.

I really got to get around to registering with Chorrol...I already do half my reading there. Currently I'm going through Trey's stories.

I too second burnt sierra.

how many judges are planed?

I don't think I'd enter a story because I haven't been thinking of one, but I'd like to judge. I want a gavil.

Anyone who wishes to judge may speak now, on this thread, or pm me. I'd hope for at least three, but the more the merrier. Anyway, I'll edit the first post with all the decisions thus far, and you all can discuss those from now on.

I like to judge if I can... will I still be able to enter (if not you might want to cut down on the numbers a bit)

I'd like to be a judge.

10??

Yikes! How many stories do you expect to get?

I would have thought 3 or 4, and they wouldn't be able to enter themselves. I'd also be tempted to look at those who express an interest in judging, and see how in depth their comments on others stories have been. People who enter are going to want good quality feedback first and foremost. Members like Redsrock and Shades I know for a fact are extremely good at that, so grab them if you can. I could list several, but whether they would be interested in judging, well that's up to them to make that decision. There would be a serious conflict if judges had also entered a story though.



"Well, yes. I can see you all like these stories. However I can't help thinking your overlooking this modern masterpiece. Which, by a strange coincidence was written by me! You know, my cat said that it put Milton to shame!"

Could be interesting I suppose

Indeed, I am not familiar with the numbers for this kind of thing. Ten might be too much

Redsrock, Shades, and Evil; we're happy to have you. Burnt Sierra, do you intend to judge? The same to you Lady Nerevar.

Also, I have one question: Should the judges be allowed to participate? I'd understand if we don't want them to be eligable for winning anything, but I would like to at least submit things for criticism. If one of you did want to be able to win, you can always stop judging for that round and take part yourself


Also, one thing that has been bothering me: If we were to do shorter stories (I am fond of novels myself), would we wrap the plot up in those few thousand words? Or could it be possible to just show one part of the plot, not necessarily concluding the conflict. I'd love to show a scene from a story I am thinking of to see whether or not people agree with the idea. That would have saved me a lot of headache with my Dark Kings novel, Fabula de Viro.

Thanks Rohugh, I was not aware of the number system for these things. This would be my first writing contest after all.

Heh, I have to go with 10 judges being far too many. Not only, as said, you are removing those 10 from the contest but I suspect you may end up with as many judges as you have entrants.

3 would be better - 5 at the most, and then chosen from those members who are not likely to enter a story.

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet or not. But what if the authors of the short stories PM their stories to whoever makes the thread, who will in turn post the stories after comments have been made on each one. That way the judges can be completely impartial with their votes. And the autors can just be credited after voting is finished.

Awesome; the early bird gets the worm

Personally I think shorter entries would be better. True; plots would have to be quite simple and there wouldn't be too much room for character development but at the same time, I think you're more likely to get the very best writing out of entrants if they have a smaller amount of text to concentrate on and you're likely to get more people trying to join as well.

Yup, that has already been mentioned Thanks anyway.


Alright Pigeon, we'll try this length for now. Although I am very fond of my novels and novellas :wub:

So, one to three or four thousand? Or shorter?

personally, I'd suggest that you get people to aim for 2-3000 words but without giving a rigid maximum so that people don't feel that they have to cut things out that they would rather leave in.

I think a maximum and a minimum is necessary, or else you'll get people posting TOO little or TOO much. And then there's the possibility that entrants will start complaining. Vagueness isn't a good thing when setting boundaries.

Instead of spliting entrants into genre based categories why not just split them into length based?

Catergory One: 1,000-3,000
Catergory Two: 3,000-5,000
Category Three: 5,000-7,500

I think that would be more fair, some people might not end up entering at all if they are restricted too much in ways of length. This way they get more freedom to explore plot and character developement.

Will people be able to enter more than one Story?

There are too many difficulties with categories anyway. Besides, the whole point is that the stories are not so long people don't want to read them. Five thousand would be the highest I would ever even consider in this kind of thing, and even that is stretching it. If they want to write novels, fine, but I'm not going to implicate our judges with reading twenty pages of story. And we would have to see how many stories we get before we announce seconds Thanks again though.


Alright then, you can go ahead and read any story we get over five thousand words. I cannot promies the author, however, that anyone else will read, and that is the main goal. To have others read and critique your fan fic, not just judges who have to. Or at least, are obligated to do so after signing up Anyway, point is, the general concensus is that over five thousand is too much. If it was on a seperate forum, we could easily make another section for our longer stories, but they would probably see less attention. Case in point, the fan fictions on this forum.

could have seperate judges forthe largest category. I'd read it all.

The title of the thread is "short story," and I don't think that 7k words is exactly short. 3k is about 5 pages in Word, a nice, manageable, and "short" length.

Dark: Heh, I wasn't planing on judging. I don't think I'm qualified to judge, as there are many people whose background exceeds mine (all I have going for me is years of lit crit essays, good test scores, and a short story).

I think its fine to submit excerpts of bigger stories as long as they are stand alone pieces. Each chapter in a larger work is really a small story of its own, complete with exposition, rising action, climix, and resolution. As long as your story has characters and plot it should be fine.