I don't play KZ3, but in CoD shotguns are well balanced. You can tell they are balanced when it isn't the gun EVERYBODY uses. In Crysis there is the problem of stealth mode + Shotgun = OP, which I don't really know how to deal with. However, this doesn't change the fact that they are a redundant weapon in C2 atm.

LOL no. To start, overused does not mean overpowered. People tend to use the most versatile weapons over the most powerful ones after the first week or so; In MW2 everyone was running around with dual shotguns kicking ass anyway. They're better balanced in Black Ops, but the silenced SPAS is still insane.
In Black ops most people use the Galil or the FAMAS, neither of which are overpowered.

WTF does "overused" mean? Just means a lot of people use it. Why? Because they find it very effective.

Versatility is a part of a weapon's power. If you have a weapon with a very short range it is not versatile, so it must be correspondingly powerful within it's own range.

The issue with 1887s wasn't the power, it was the range, which was nerfed (not enough IMO).

I don't play KZ3, but in CoD shotguns are well balanced. You can tell they are balanced when it isn't the gun EVERYBODY uses. In Crysis there is the problem of stealth mode + Shotgun = OP, which I don't really know how to deal with. However, this doesn't change the fact that they are a redundant weapon in C2 atm.

LOL no. To start, overused does not mean overpowered. People tend to use the most versatile weapons over the most powerful ones after the first week or so; In MW2 everyone was running around with dual shotguns kicking ass anyway. They're better balanced in Black Ops, but the silenced SPAS is still insane.
In Black ops most people use the Galil or the FAMAS, neither of which are overpowered.

The silenced SPAS will lose to a FAMAS in close range much more often than you would think. As for the FAMAS not being OP, I'll just direct you to the COD boards, where this has already been debated enough.

The FAMAS isn't OP at all. It does less damage than the Commando or AK47, while having significant recoil in ADS. Pretty much the only thing people have ANY grounds to complain about is the RoF, which is no different to the AUG. If anything, the Galil's high power and complete lack of recoil make it more OP than the FAMAS..

I don't play KZ3, but in CoD shotguns are well balanced. You can tell they are balanced when it isn't the gun EVERYBODY uses. In Crysis there is the problem of stealth mode + Shotgun = OP, which I don't really know how to deal with. However, this doesn't change the fact that they are a redundant weapon in C2 atm.

LOL no. To start, overused does not mean overpowered. People tend to use the most versatile weapons over the most powerful ones after the first week or so; In MW2 everyone was running around with dual shotguns kicking ass anyway. They're better balanced in Black Ops, but the silenced SPAS is still insane.
In Black ops most people use the Galil or the FAMAS, neither of which are overpowered.

WTF does "overused" mean? Just means a lot of people use it. Why? Because they find it very effective.
It means exactly what it says. You said you can tell the OP weapons because everyone is using them, which is not necessarily the case at all.

Versatility is a part of a weapon's power. If you have a weapon with a very short range it is not versatile, so it must be correspondingly powerful within it's own range.
The thing is, the Jackal IS versatile. I've seen plenty of mid-range kills with it, and even had a few myself. It is definitely not justifiable to give it a buff considering the fire rate and effective range.

The issue with 1887s wasn't the power, it was the range, which was nerfed (not enough IMO).
It was the combination of range and OHK, and the fact that with slight of hand the reload was ridiculous. People also complained about the dual rangers, which have OHK and significantly less range.

Having OHK shotgun is little different to having OHK melee. They both are justifiable under some circumstances, but when armour, cloak and menouverability make getting close to people pretty damn easy, they just aren't justifiable; at least without something like a significant pump-action or cooldown.

If you can't see the relationship between the power of a weapon (by this i mean how good it is) and how many people use it then I don't think you can take part in this debate.

i cant agree with you more i mean it takes 4-5 shots to kill someone...when their close. also whats with the being able to headshot from a distance if you have the laser scope, its a SHOTGUN!

If you can't see the relationship between the power of a weapon (by this i mean how good it is) and how many people use it then I don't think you can take part in this debate.

Nice try, but address the issues instead of trying to sound smart. I'm pointing out that damage output and overall lethality (range and damage) is not necessarily a factor in choosing a weapon. Many players choose the Galil over the AK74u in Black Ops because the Galil has zero recoil. This doesn't change the fact that the AK74u is still effective at range and has more power.

If you're going to interpret power to mean how 'good' a weapon is, then you're on the road to a trainwreck. That is a completely subjective matter and has no place here. The power of a weapon should be based on its damage output, and how it is balanced against range.

It seems to me that the Marshall's spread is a bit too large. So many times have I been point blank range and not killed them in one shot (they were in stealth), could be lag though. I find myself losing to scars and felines the majority of the time in CQB even when I get the jump on them first.

The FAMAS isn't OP at all. It does less damage than the Commando or AK47, while having significant recoil in ADS. Pretty much the only thing people have ANY grounds to complain about is the RoF, which is no different to the AUG. If anything, the Galil's high power and complete lack of recoil make it more OP than the FAMAS..

You do realize that the 35-25 damage of the FAMAS/AUG is functionally equivalent to the 40-30 of the other ARs, right? Also, the Galil, Commando, and AK all have random recoil while the FAMAS has predictable up/right recoil.
It could be argued the AUG is a fair weapon, since it has the same recoil numbers, and so has higher recoil due to the high RoF, but this isn't true for the FAMAS

Look, this really isn't the place.

It could be lag, but the Jackal is just a terrible choice of weapon right now. It's almost a guarantee that'll I'll be outmatched at any range

Uhm yeah, get yourself in a spot where a SHOTGUN shines.

Um yeah... Go ahead and read my original post.

I have read the original post. And the one I quoted kinda contradicts it; why mention being outmatched at any range with the Jackal?

Not trying to be a smart arse, really; I have no problems when using the jackal in its maximum damage range. Just to make it easier on myself and be extra sure some pellets will not miss I used it for a good amount of time with Aimpoint Enhance. I don't want to be forced to pull up the iron sights against any automatic weapons. This way it remains instinctive play: just frame the head in the reduced circle in semi-auto (NEVER use the auto fire of the Jackal.) and you're in business.

It feels more that instead of the Jackal being your issue is more about the Scar destroying you. Don't worry it's like that with everyone. I rarely manage, in case I need one second shot at my engaging Scar opponent to take him out. While you'll need 1 to 2 shots, 3 if unlucky to take him down, every extra shot the Scar will be punishing you.

Just relax, take the Reflex Sight off, take the Extended Mag off as well. The Jackal is just awesome if you keep its mobility at its top and as long as you use SEMI-AUTO. In fact I'm often surprised when I have no choice but to shoot someone that had the jump on me at an unproper range with the Jackal in hand: "fack quick switch pisto--- meh f*** it." shoot and aim the head regardless, sometimes they still go down. The Jackal sincerely surprises me with its effectiveness.

I don't wanna look like I'm trying to lecture you or systematically contradict you with how you feel about the Jackal but really man, the gun is fine. Marshall feels on the other hand a little random because the cone has a bigger spread than the Jackal in semi-automatic, even if using Aimpoint Enhance and not respectively Oo

At this game state we can't compare varius weapons, on MP there is a lot than modify nanosuite strength and also the damange of the weapons so it's useless at the state make a comparsion.
I had been killed by a pistol with one shot (not in head on body)

Hmm, yes shotguns should be a bit better.

Also the RPM on the Marshall is piss poor, even the Jackal single shot is twice as fast. It should be around 90-100 RPM.

WTF? I thought it was C2 forums, but every one's talking about BO here. *_*

I have over 30 hours of experience in multiplayer, I'm a good player (1.40 KDR, as a rusher) and I have seen TWO people playing with the jackal, and NO ONE using the marshall apart from me. After testing, indeed, shotguns svck. And for f*** sake do not anwser "learn two play noob".

When I look at this video I'm thinking 'this never happens to me' but this is how the Marshall should work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7yyoCfWi9M

This is what happens when I play most the time however. (not my video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg2jxRHsdv0

When I look at this video I'm thinking 'this never happens to me' but this is how the Marshall should work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7yyoCfWi9M

What's the caliber of HIS marshall? 10-gauge nuclear cartridges?? That definitely NEVER happened to me, and I play as well as he does...

When I look at this video I'm thinking 'this never happens to me' but this is how the Marshall should work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7yyoCfWi9M

What's the caliber of HIS marshall? 10-gauge nuclear cartridges?? That definitely NEVER happened to me, and I play as well as he does...

I know! Check the second video in my post (I just edited it), that's what happens to me when I use the Marshall.

If you can't see the relationship between the power of a weapon (by this i mean how good it is) and how many people use it then I don't think you can take part in this debate.

Nice try, but address the issues instead of trying to sound smart. I'm pointing out that damage output and overall lethality (range and damage) is not necessarily a factor in choosing a weapon. Many players choose the Galil over the AK74u in Black Ops because the Galil has zero recoil. This doesn't change the fact that the AK74u is still effective at range and has more power.

If you're going to interpret power to mean how 'good' a weapon is, then you're on the road to a trainwreck. That is a completely subjective matter and has no place here. The power of a weapon should be based on its damage output, and how it is balanced against range.

Are you still denying that people choose to play with the weapons they think are the best?

Oh, and I guess you don't understand that the term "overpowered" actually means "too good", it's not actually specifically about the dmg output of a weapon.

Also there is nothing subjective about the stats of a gun, except maybe which colour you think is best.

It seems to me that the Marshall's spread is a bit too large. So many times have I been point blank range and not killed them in one shot (they were in stealth), could be lag though. I find myself losing to scars and felines the majority of the time in CQB even when I get the jump on them first.

This. I'd settle for a narrower spread => aim skills needed, but more powerful over all

If you can't see the relationship between the power of a weapon (by this i mean how good it is) and how many people use it then I don't think you can take part in this debate.

Nice try, but address the issues instead of trying to sound smart. I'm pointing out that damage output and overall lethality (range and damage) is not necessarily a factor in choosing a weapon. Many players choose the Galil over the AK74u in Black Ops because the Galil has zero recoil. This doesn't change the fact that the AK74u is still effective at range and has more power.

If you're going to interpret power to mean how 'good' a weapon is, then you're on the road to a trainwreck. That is a completely subjective matter and has no place here. The power of a weapon should be based on its damage output, and how it is balanced against range.

Are you still denying that people choose to play with the weapons they think are the best?

Oh, and I guess you don't understand that the term "overpowered" actually means "too good", it's not actually specifically about the dmg output of a weapon.

Also there is nothing subjective about the stats of a gun, except maybe which colour you think is best.

The point I'm making is that 'good' is an ambiguous term. It is subjective; it means different things to different people. 'good' to one person may be high damage, or to another may mean high rate of fire.

and you're right, 'too good' doesn't necessarily refer to the damage alone; it usually refers to the ability to kill people too fast/too easily (I did refer to this with the term 'overall lethality), which is something shotguns are usually heavily criticised for.

Jackal could use a small buff imo

Played a bit more with the Marshall today and I only had two games where it seemed it act ok, that didn't last long though. I snuck up behind someone and pointed it at his head (I had a reflex sight just to see if it would make any difference) and it didn't kill him -_-. Many times that has happened and it is really frustrating.

According to the stats the Marshall does 30 dmg per buckshot and it fires 8, meaning an overall damage of 240 if all of the shots hit. However it seems like only 2-4 of the shots hit. Spread is definitely way to high and the ADS spread needs to be much narrower, at least in the 3 category.

Smg's? what you talkign about man!? we have ONE SMG and oen eloctrostatic paintba- i mean pellet gun.
the jackal was Balanced in demo, its been NERFED so bad now, none of the shotguns. are usefull.. and the fact that shotgusn are less effective, even when the maps are less long ranged.(skyline and pier are still the longest ranged maps IMO). and shotguns show skills, you have to use stealth and armour PROPERLY. it amplified the risk/reward or skill/killstreak amplifier, now, all it does is make you sh!t

Smg's? what you talkign about man!? we have ONE SMG and oen eloctrostatic paintba- i mean pellet gun.
the jackal was Balanced in demo, its been NERFED so bad now, none of the shotguns. are usefull.. and the fact that shotgusn are less effective, even when the maps are less long ranged.(skyline and pier are still the longest ranged maps IMO). and shotguns show skills, you have to use stealth and armour PROPERLY. it amplified the risk/reward or skill/killstreak amplifier, now, all it does is make you sh!t

Doesnt make everyone Sh1t apparently just some, post demo some of my best rounds have been with the Jackel, I love the shotgun the way it is

Sorry, just put single shot on jacka, its immense with it!

I stopped using shotgun when I realized that the SCAR is better even at close range. This might be a separate problem.

Ideally shotgun should be devastating/1-2 shot kills at close range, but fall off at medium range.