I was watching a thread regarding the ability to play as one specific combat archetype and i remember trying to play as a pure warrior in one of my oblivion characters and despite trying to regenerate my health by using health potions as much as i could i would always succumb to using my healing spell very often, specially at the start of the game!

Now i feel like if you wanna play a pure warrior type i'm sure you don't want to be casting any sort of spells.. (i'm not considering shouts as spells). I'm kinda hoping now that bethesda would remove the initial starting heal spell and create other proper ways of regenerating health without having to constantly resort to magic. Health potions are a option but i think they should be kept in the same balance they had in Oblivion, enough to have often 2-3 potions in your backpack and not really as common that you get a full backpack of health potions, this ofc variated if you were good in herbalism or not.

What do you guys think?

I am against prohibiting anything. Players of this game are mature enough to choose playstyle that they want. I think that the idea: "lets remove this, because I use it too much" is not good.

Don't use it if you don't want to then? :shakehead:

In Oblivion the problem is that only your Major skills affect your leveling (and enemy difficulty). This means that you can happily spam all the other skills without doing any harm to yourself. Now in Skyrim all skills are going to level you (and the enemies) so if you spam healing you're going to lose in the other skills.

Obviously if you don't like the basic heal spell, then don't use it. I don't see the problem here.

I think the OP has a point.

If I choose a mage then by all means give me a healing spell.

but giving a pure warrior a healing spell cheapens the idea of magicka in TES universe.

it implies any old joe, even the beggers can conjour magic as easily as breathing air, which it shouldnt be.

In morrowind, magic was an esoteric, organised, upper class art.

Same goes for fireball spell.. if everyone in Tamriel can shoot fire from their hands then why use torches? why prepare for the winter months?

If im arrested, why not just set fire to the guards? if they cut me with their sword.. nevermind I can magic my wounds back to health.

So yeah, magic should not be available to any old Joe... if you want magic, then choose magic, same goes for those who dont want magic.

Problem with removing basic heal is that it would make the game much harder, you would have to learn alchemy fast, as you can not rely on finding enough potions.
Far better if you just delete the heal spell if you want.

The problem is its there.. and if i'm out of hp potions and my hp is 1/3 i'm always going to feel pushed into using the spell.. i can't bother to go to town in the middle of a quest to get more hp pots and i'm not a herbalist.. and the only less tedious way of doing it is the "Oh.. i guess i'll just use the spell this time", ofc thats not going to be true..
I don't really consider it a maturity problem because it happens to everyone.. even in real life.. if you can do it the easy less bothersome way your going to use it.. but in game i don't really wanna cast spells as i'm playing a warrior so i don't think it would be too much of a problem to just make the spell trainable instead of just having it by default and add other means of recovering hp that would make more "sense" to a warrior.

It's just a cheap and weak healing spell. Any old Joe can pick up a bow or a shortsword.

Magic IS available to most people. Shops freely sell magic scrolls, and the Mage Guild sell you spells for a fee. It isn't strange to know minor spells for daily use, magic is not rare in TES.

Why isn't it sensible for the Avatar to know a low level healing spell? That's a survival skill, like learning how to swim. Just as even a mage character has "some" ability to swing a sword at the start, even if they don't want to. But if you don't pump more skill into magic and more max-mana increases, you would not be able to use spells much.

What separates a sorcerer and a warrior isn't that a warrior is incapable of casting spells; it's that the warrior isn't any good at casting spells. Though I guess if you cast healing spells often enough, you would turn into a Paladin. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Delete the spell, no spell delete was a Oblivion bug.
Yes with no spellmaking it’s not sure spell delete will be in Skyrim, in this case the PC version and a mod is your solution, no healing will make the game very hard so it will be inn.

We have no choice now.
If you still had to choose a class you could get skills accompanied with that class. Now however you start as a Jack of all trades and level up by doing what you are good at. So you *must* have the spells in your spellbook.

It makes a difference when you know the spell is there, though. If it wasn't, it forces the gamer to adopt even more of a survivalist strategy from the start. I can relate with the OP, therefore.

That's one of the things that bugged me about Oblivion, actually. Here I am trying to roleplay an illiterate Theif character who is too dumb to understand how magic works, and the game starts him with this pack of spells anyways. I, of course, wind up ignoring (forgetting) that the spells are there over the long run, but I'd prefer NO spell book for such a char. That would complete immersion for me.

No, I think everyone should have a heal spell. Have other starting spells be race dependant though.

A GAME where the purpose is to get better and achieve things should not be an excercise in self weakening.

I agree with the OP. I hate that when I wanted to be a pure warrior in OB I was stuck with these spells. And the game was balanced assuming you'd have to use them, too. So your hand was pretty much forced to use the heal spell at the very minimum.

i think you should only start with spells if you picked mage skills as your majors, like in morrowind.

Now, however, that you don't actually pick any major skills, it could be iffy to work out.

Yes, but not everyone can use them properly.

I was talking about this with my brother a while ago, magic is pretty stupid in ES, in many other fantasy books and games, only the privileged few can use magic, those who are born with it, and those who spent the majority of their lives to learn a particular school. Some run-of-the-mill hobo shouldn't know a thing of magic, and especially if you're some clay-brained orc warrior, I really doubt you'd know magic, it's just common sense.

The reason why magic is so magical is because nobody knows what and where it came from and how it works, but if everyone knows everything of magic, it doesn't feel right.

Then you would lose Mage guilds all together.

In the TES universe, magic is a part of everyday life. It is a little too late to complain about it when this has been true for four games already. Magical is practical, dependable, and available in TES. If you want to complain about that, you are sixteen years too late.

Besides, ... basic heal spell ... it feels so classic for RPG games. You might skip all the other magic altogether, but basic heal... I would feel that something is terribly missing if I wouldn't get it at a char creation. Almost feels like without clothes.

All that we need is the ability to delete spells from our spell list again.
Problem solved.

After all the complaints about not being able to do this in Oblivion, hopefully it got remedied.

I disagree with disabling it. As I previously posted TES has managed to be fun because of the ability to mix up skills. If you want to be a Paladin (2 hand sword and Restoration) you can. I also appreciate how Restoration is it's own category. It isn't in another Spell School like most MMO/RPG's where you have to learn a damaging spell before you can get to a heal. I refuse to be a pure Warrior, Mage or Rogue. If you don't want to use it simply don't put it on your bar or cast it. I don't mind having the ability to delete it from the spell book. That is fine. At least you can buy it back later.

Except Oblivion was the only game to give you a basic healing spell from the start.

No, TES is not about everybody being able to cast magic, it's more about choices and diversity. There's a wide range of paths you can take with your character, and I hate the idea of being forced into becoming a spellsword or some other mixed class every time. I believe I should have the choices to be a 100% pure warrior without any spells. i had this choice in every game but Oblivion. So, no, this is not some classic element at the heart of TES, it's just a recent problem.

My argument is that magic isn't some unreachable secret lore in TES. It isn't how the game works, you don't need to do some complicated quest to be able to start learning spells.

And as others mentioned, if you can delete spells then there is no problem. If you can't make yourself delete the spell from the inventory, then perhaps you don't really want to be a pure warrior.

At this point, I'm assuming our character will start with at least one spell from each Magic school to properly implement their new leveling and skill system. I too was disappointed that my character had starting spells in OB versus the Morrowind system, but I would be satisfied with a simple delete spell option to customize my starting character the way I want, especially since they are removing all traces of starting customization. How likely is a delete spell button though? The developers are probably afraid their younger fans might make a mistake that will ruin their game...