I find the beast races very creative actually. Even the two that aren't playable. The sloads and the Imga. A great alternative to dwarves which seem like they're in every other fantasy game.

Sure, if you just look at the surface, they're cats and lizards. Read a bit into the lore and... well, I honestly think they're both VERY high concept races.

Should beast races be replaced by something original and less silly?

Should this thread be replaced by something original and less silly?

Should beast races be replaced...

short answer; No

Khajiit and Argonians are civilized. Most games with beast races have them as generic enemies. Original enough for me. If there was any race that could be replaced or just plain done away with it 's Imperials. As far as I can tell they only were added so Cyrodiil would have it's own race when you picked your race/homeland in Morrowind so they're really unnecessary.


Ooh, cool. Looks like it could be a new bipedal species of dreugh.

Say what? :huh:

He is saying there are no difference in culture between the two races, which I think is complete bologna! He is talking out of his buttocks.

I believe the basis for his statement is that in TES III: Morrowind and TES IV: Oblivion, beast races conformed to the cultures in which they found themselves. This is a far cry from not having a culture of their own, which each race does have.

Well, I think that the city guards in any Dunmer or Imperial city would throw a near-naked anyone in jail, where-ever you go, you are epected to conform to the rules and/or culture.

really.........they live in the same housing, wear the same clothing, use the same weapons and armor, use the same language (at least the dumner had some distinct dialogue). seriously, aside from them looking like a freakshow petstore there is nothing different between them and their next door neighbor redguard. if they had some culture of their own that was distinct wouldnt they carry some of it over. why dont they have their own weapons or style of dress? i dont remember any kitty or lizard swear words. i realize they are in cyrodil so they arent going to live in litter boxes or trees but at least make them different somehow. and seperate them from everyone else. i feel the same way about elves as well.............its just as far as im concerned elves are just regular people with ear disorders so it doesnt stand out as much.

They have all of those things. They aren't shown in game because it doesn't matter in the context of Cyrodiil and would just have taken away precious resources. Do me a favor and read the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-and-its-environs-first-edition, you'll learn all you need to about what makes the races distinct. As for languages, I just finished the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/translation-dictionary. It includes both kitty and lizard swear words

thanks for the links but it would be nice if they put some stuff in the game. most people, myself included, dont read the lore books or background. i havent even read all the books ingame and i tried with those.

a good example of what im trying to say is the bloodmoon expansion for morrowind. its been awhile since i played it but i remember most of the nords wearing furs and skins........not regular pants and shirt like in the other cities. they also had their own distinct armor, i didnt see them wearing dwemer armor or glass armor. if the pet races had all this culture they why didnt any of it make it across the border.

im not asking for a litter box in ever khajit home (that would be nice though)............just a different wardrobe, armor and weapons sets and the use of some of those kitty swear words and the same for the lizards as well........and the elves if they get around to it. at least in morrowind the altmer dressed like altmer, with those robes on the looked like giant pencses.

edit: if low budget games like gothic 3 and risen and two worlds can make various cultures look and act different then i dont see why bethesda would have any difficulty with it.

When you boil it down, what is Oblivion about? The death of Uriel, the invasion of Mehrunes Dagon, and finding Martin. Adding in unique Nordic clothing or Khajiiti weaponry does not enhance this storyline, neither does it develop Cyrodiil as a place (a Colovia/Niben split would have, but thats water under the bridge). We had different cultures (Great House Dunmer, Ashlanders, and Imperials) in Morrowind because it played a vital part in the story and was necessary to developing the province. The Skaal were different because that was part of the idea of Soltheim - a new unexplored place. I'm sure that when we get a game in Elsweyr or a game focused on how the Aldmeri Dominion is trying to take over Cyrodiil we'll have distinct cultures, because there it will be about more than aesthetics and wishful thinking.

im inclined to believe they just got lazy or ran out of time in oblivion........same reason the face system was so bad. as i posted previously if other games like two world, risen, and the gothic games which are by no means big budget games can do this they why cant bethesda. modders create new clothing and armor all the time and thats doing to part time. how hard would it be to create a unique set of gear for the different races and simply fill out the inventories of each npc appropriately. waalx did it to some extent with realswords and even added them ingame with his WAC mod and that is one guy working part time on a massive overhaul mod.

after reading the pocket dictionary on elswyer.......im even more inclined to think that the beast races are idiotic. apparently bethesda screwed up on its lore and in fact this is the khajit we are supposed to see outside of elswer

http://newnostalgia.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/thundercats.jpg

http://www.cats-fanpage.de/images/cats.jpg

yeah............i definitely dont see them as being silly now. :facepalm:

Fine, I give up. I have no idea where you're getting Thundercats or Cats from, but there is obviously no convincing you.

from the pocket dictionary the ohms race or man faced race is supposed to be the khajit you see most of outside of elswer. there is also an ohms mod race that looks just like the thundercats and musical cats. i can no longer take that race seriously anymore. between this and their home being called "elswer" and it being a desert........giant litterbox anyone. they are now just a giant ingame joke to me.

MW boarder. The 'pet races' were slaves.
OB boarder. ??? Local supplies? The lack of a centralized khajit or argonian sub-culture within Cyrodil?



Get over it? Its not the first stab in the 'humorous direction'
que: Naked Nords

Unless you're in Black Marsh or Elsweyr, you aren't going to see much of the Argonian or Khajiit culture. You saw more ethnicity among them in Morrowind because many of them were brought over from their respective provinces as slaves. This is not the case in Cyrodiil, where many were probably born and raised in the province. In the case of Cyrodiil, the vast majority of the Argonians and Khajiit have been assimilated into Imperial culture (the same goes for the other races as well -- it's safe to assume that the distinct races would be most homogenized in Cyrodiil, which I honestly see as Tamriel's "melting pot") . The same is true in Morrowind, just to a much lesser extent. This sort of thing happens in "real life" too. In a "melting pot" region such as America, for example, ethnic cultures are naturally far more diluted and assimilated into American culture as opposed to how it'd be in their home country.

I also find it peculiar how you complain about the beast races being too silly in TES and should be changed or removed but show no interest in actually LEARNING about the races in the lore. If you have no interest in learning about them, I fail to see why you even care so much, or really at all.

A wonderful thing about The Elder Scrolls is that it takes tired, cliche fantasy tropes and turns them around and makes them fresh and interesting and unique. Take some time to learn about the different races, especially Argonians and Khajiit, and you'll see just how original they actually are. However, if you have no interest in the lore of TES, then this is the wrong video game series for you, because the lore is part of what makes up the greater part of TES's charm and appeal.

Also, while it would certainly be nice to see every aspect of the lore in TES games, one needs to be reasonable. The games are already massive as they are, and like any video game company, Bethesda doesn't have limitless resources nor limitless technology. There is no way Bethesda would have been able to include every variety of khajiit, argonian, human, or what have you in either Oblivion or Morrowind. It's just not feasible. The overall games themselves would have suffered greatly as a result, seeing as how resources would have been pooled into the quantity of races and probably not much else, such as story, gameplay, the world, etc. Not to mention such a thing, at this point in time, would be too difficult and costly to realize with today's technology. Take a moment to learn about the restraints of game mechanics.

I neither find them silly nor generic, so no, definitely not. Infact I find them pretty vital in defining TES.

No. No, no, no, no, no. The last game TES needs to ape is Mass Effect (with the exception of its conversation system, perhaps).

The beast races are proud, and extremely powerful in the right hands (i.e. mine). The beasts contribute to the diversity of Tamriel, something that most fantasy settings sorely lack. The day that Bethesda retcons the beast races is the day I stop playing - it would demonstrate a total lack of feeling for Tamriel and its lore. I couldn't abide it.

Let me ask you this - why do you feel Argonians, Khajiits, Tsaeci, etc. are "unoriginal"? Couldn't the same thing be said of humans and elves? How many fantasy titles actually allow you to play as a non-human? The beast races have their place - they contibute to the overall balance of the world in which you play. Whether you play as them or not, you'd miss them if they were gone.

...

My cat's name is Chloe, as well. She is a supporter of beast races.

I didn't mean to imply that they shouldn't conform to the culture of where they live, just that they do.

The reason I picked up Oblivion back in 2009 was because I saw someone's drawing of an Argonian on DeviantArt, and became interested. I'd never before even heard of a fantasy game that let you create a character that was reptilian; the fact that they weren't the stock 'evil-and-primitive' lizard-men surprised me, in a good way.

I'm descended from Native American heritage, yet I don't live in a teepee out in the middle of nowhere, and spend time hunting with a bow and arrow. Nor do I go around wearing a loincloth and a feathered headdress. When European settlers came over to America, it wasn't exactly that rare for the natives to adopt a few aspects of the foreigners' culture and technology. It was out of being practical to replace their bows and arrows with rifles and whatnot the settlers were exchanging with them. And clothing, decorations, beliefs and such can be comparable to one's own interest of exotic cultures in current times.

So tell me this, why do Argonians and Khajiiti have to remain in a primitive state when they're living in a technologically superior world, and they have access to that technology? Isolated tribes in the wilderness, I can cearly - note:clearly - understand, but large kingdoms that are practically border-to-border with each other will absolutely evolve alongside their neighbors, whether they are trading partners or two enemies trying to stay superior over each other (The Cold War makes a good real-life example. They didn't call it an 'arms race' between America and Russia for nothing.). It's only natural, and the beast races in TES are clearly just as sentient as the humans and elves.

I would give up playing Elder Scrolls if they removed Argonians. Seriously. I hope they make them even more different. Hand to hand with claws, racism...

Careful there, sparky. A lot of people here, my self included, roleplay in Morrowind and Oblivion.

Well, do you like Argonians and Khajits?

I'm indifferent towards them. Though I do find the lore behind them to be fascinating.