Excuse me, but exclusive features (Like the ones in question, MODS) are making people make decisions in favour of one platform or another.

Okay, if he says so. My opinion is still "No" though, 100% or 10%, I don't want my platform to lose it's exclusive feature.

Examples? Okay, just off the bat: Battlefield Bad Company 2 didn't get some of the features I was interested in. Resident Evil 5, none of the multiplayer or singleplayer DLC were ever released on PC. Dead Space 1 didn't get any DLC on PC. DS2 also didn't get the Severed singleplayer DLC. Late NFS titles don't get DLC on PC either.


Losing people supporting the platform is good? You keep saying there are literaly two and a half players on PC.

They should, but they wont and here's why.

- Microsoft wont let them. Because a lot of the mods out there completly unbalance everything, these include altering the built in scaling system and this would mess up another little console gem - achievements. Yes, steam has achievements but it's not a built-in core part of the PC experience and as such nobody really gives a toss. Bethesda likes to make use of the achievements on consoles and I can't see them getting rid of those in game in favor of mods which not everyone will even use. Also:

- Microsoft wont let them. A lot of the mods out there contain... Questionable content, we're all friends here and ,yeah, I use nudity mods and mods to allow me to... get rid of ChildSecuBot 2.0 but Microsoft isn't going to allow stuff like this to surface on the xbox 360. Noticed the lack of kids in Grand Theft Auto? Go ahead and deny it if you like but its the warm, hard, turgid truth. In addition:

- Todd Howard wont let them! He's already answered this question time and time again, I'm not gonna trawl through the dark recesses of the internet for your sakes you lazy scroats so if you're interested in what his reasons were, google away! However lets think of this from a development point of view. How much time (and disc/hard drive space) is it gonna soak up to allow people to get mods which were created on the CK on a PC for the PC edition of a game designed for the consoles on PC's back on to a console BLARGH. This issue would only become more complicated with script extenders and other [censored] mods require which would never work on a console.

- Furthermore mods can have an impact on performance and when you consider how streamlined the console editions are to maintain their 35fps despite their aging hardware the simple answer to a silly question is no, it's not gonna happen.

- The only way it could happen is to have a select few mods created specifically to work on all systems moderated by Bethesda to appear on the xbox live/PS3 equivelant marketplaces where they could be easily downloaded and installed. This would take resources on both Bethesda and Microsofts side and so they'd have to charge for the ser- WAIT A MINUTE, this all sound awfully familiar and in the end what we're left with is the compromise we already had in the first place - DLC.

Excuse me, but exclusive features (Like the ones in question, MODS) are making people make decisions in favour of one platform or another.

Okay, if he says so. My opinion is still "No" though, 100% or 10%, I don't want my platform to lose it's exclusive feature.

Examples? Okay, just off the bat: Battlefield Bad Company 2 didn't get some of the features I was interested in. Resident Evil 5, none of the multiplayer or singleplayer DLC were ever released on PC. Dead Space 1 didn't get any DLC on PC. DS2 also didn't get the Severed singleplayer DLC. Late NFS titles don't get DLC on PC either.


Losing people supporting the platform is good? You keep saying there are literaly two and a half players on PC.

-If mods as a feature did that, 9/10 of the player base wouldn't be on consoles; even if PC was still the minority, it wouldn't be by such a large margin if mods made all the difference. Some people want to play on consoles just because, and other's can't afford to spend thousands of dollars on a game system (plus regular upgrades and maintenance).

-Those examples aren't of Bethesda games. I don't see why you seem to have so little faith in them; they will not shirk you, PC player or nay.

-I said no such thing; that there are "literally two and a half players on PC" is a gross hyperbole, and serves no purpose in response to me or this thread even if that was a quote of mine.

I'm saying that there is no reason whatsoever to not have mods on consoles if it can be done. To argue otherwise is just as absurd and unintelligent as saying that DLC should be a console exclusive or that vampirism shouldn't be in the game because enough people aren't going to use it.

why bring all that hate to another game all because you didnt get DLC for a few games from other companies (looks like your complaint is actually mostly with EA about you not getting DLC) and not bethesda... you got to remember different developers have different goals and one of most game studios that make games primarily for consoles is to make money especially console games....

Losing people supporting the platform is good? You keep saying there are literaly two and a half players on PC.

Another concern of mine is that we should give this feature, supposedly happily, while developers keep restricting content from PC. That's all.

Far from it. It is working with the mods and getting the mods to work and or work together that is the issue. It requires a PC to run all the mod management programs, editors, leveled list mergers, mod cleaners, conflict detectors and eliminators etc. I think it takes about 4 separate programs, if not more, to run properly work with and install mods on Oblivion and Fallout3/NV, which does not include the Script Extender.

Then, who is going to pick the mods? Who is going to guarantee that they work on your set up? Who is going to provide the technical support for the mods? Who is going to be responsible for all the borked and corrupted saves that come from trying mods out then removing them from the game?

I have said it before, those who want mods on the Console have not used many mods with these games.

Well put. Also like you bringing up the script extender which I almost forgot about. Without the Script extender many of the incredible overhaul mods like Real Time Settler, Fallout Wanderers edition and all its features would not be possible.

I think the best solution is not to bring modding tools to consoles, but mods themselves--whatever the PC community made.

But Beth doesn't do that.

Also, it does seem like hate to others when you want to restrict content to PC for no better reason than just because, or if you think it's unfair for Bethesda to give console gamers fair treatment because you think other developers are unfair in favor of consoles, so BGS should be unfair in favor of PC. Overall, it just doesn't make sense. There can be no logical argument against bringing mods to consoles if it can be done without harm when we consider all the good it does.

- It keeps some people on PC, not the other way around. If what you say is true and PC has ten times less players than consoles do, losing even a fracture would be bad. Losing 10 people out of 100 is worse than losing 10 out of a million.

- They moved from making a PC game to making a port to PC. That's something.

- Of course you didn't because that wasn't a quote of another person's post, but yes, it was an exaggeration of "10%".

- But I don't argue, I don't force my opinion on anyone. I expressed my thoughs, explained why I think so when you asked and that's about it.


I don't bring any hate. If you reread my posts I've made in this thread so far you will notice that I don't want addition of mods on consoles because it would create a precedent of taking away a defining feature of PC platform because it might hurt it in the long run if other developers do that. Another concern of mine is that we should give this feature, supposedly happily, while developers keep restricting content from PC. That's all.

90% of console players wanting mods have never actually modded themselves.

Unless it's a simple retexture, or something small such as that, it's not going to work on a console.

Look: Mods for Skyrim on consoles create a precedent ---> Players and developers push for this feature in other games ---> PC loses it's exclusive feature ---> Certain amount of people switch to consoles ---> Less players on PC ---> Even less income than now ---> Less titles on PC, less content on PC, less everything ---> PC moves towards MMORPG and facebook games even faster.

No, thanks.

Again with the slippery slope. I'm pretty sure that's not the concern here; bringing Skyrim mods to consoles will not singlehandedly destroy the PC market :lmao:

90% of console players wanting mods have never actually modded themselves.

Unless it's a simple retexture, or something small such as that, it's not going to work on a console.

Precisely some of these consolers just think we just download mods at will and everything works dandy. :facepalm: How are consolers gonna merge mods when needed? Setup correct load order. Just soooo many variables Consoles are very limited too.

Of course. But it's a "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normalcy".

I don't hate people, come on. I would have said it if I did.

Look: Mods for Skyrim on consoles create a precedent ---> Players and developers push for this feature in other games ---> PC loses it's exclusive feature ---> Certain amount of people switch to consoles ---> Less players on PC ---> Even less income than now ---> Less titles on PC, less content on PC, less everything ---> PC moves towards MMORPG and facebook games even faster.

No, thanks.

Even if you're right, that would simply mean that outcome was more beneficial to most consumers. When's the last time you ran out and bought a typewriter?

Most of the "better" mods require things like OBSE. There is no way to edit load orders on consoles. And what happens if they accidentally, you know, overwrite something? I must have overwritten my shaders in Oblivion on accident atleast 22536 times. Mod conflicts? Etc, etc.

Full out modding abilities should be a no-no on consoles. It would make for a lot of hardware issues especially when one would attempt to make hi-res textures as just one problem. What I am all for though, is making a tool that can change stats on items or characters to make the game fun for how one wants the game to be for them, or something along that line.

Even if you're right, that would simply mean that outcome was more beneficial to most consumers. When's the last time you ran out and bought a typewriter?

The problem is that a PC is not equivalent to a typewriter. A console is NOT the next evolution of platforms. Actually, the inverse is true. The more consoles progress, the less different from a PC they become. The are trying to mimic and catch up to the capabilities a PC has. The only difference a console provides is that the primary input device they CHOOSE to market is a gamepad, and that the component cables it comes with allows you to plug it into your flatscreen television and play it on your sofa.

To say that "gamers" choose consoles over PCs is illogical. To say that newer generations are conditioned to play games on consoles instead of PCs is true. It has absolutely nothing to do with capabilities. A PC is better in every aspect. This is not an elitist post, I play my consoles regularly, I just don't choose to play FPS games or RTS games (or games like TES) with a gamepad, because it is inferior. Please do not take offense to this comment. It is not personal, it is a fact - not a subjective evaluation.

With that said, I do not care if mods or the ability to mod ever comes to consoles. I won't stand in your way to get it done, but to make the claim that a typewriter is equivalent to a PC is completely absurd. Why do you think we have Kinect and Wii? In order for consoles to stay relevant, they need to branch out - so you get new and exciting input devices and games built around that. The Mouse and Keyboard is not likely to go anywhere soon.

By golly, I had not even thought about that...but you make an excellent point :foodndrink:

Honestly, I think it would be ideal for games to run only on superior, dedicated gaming consoles. It may be ages from now, but I'm sure it'll happen.