Todd Howard saying 90% of his audience is on console is either a gross exaggeration or an outright lie.

He needs to slap his market research team.

and @above: mouse and keyboard are factually superior in first person games. Controllers have a slight advantage in some platform games like Assassin's Creed, and driving games, where the stick can give movement proportional to stimulus. Of course, the difference is that PC players can choose to plug in a controller, console players cannot simply choose to use kbm, as their games do not support it.

What I desire is to not have users post snarky responses to my posts and say that they're not being snarky :facepalm:

This is an example of what I am talking about when I say that people who want mods on the console have never modded this game.

I am not saying that consoles should not have mods, I am just saying that it is a much more involved process than just loading them up and playing.

Or you need to pull up some numbers yourself, including market predictions, since that quote came before Skyrim was released.

I would venture to guess that he knows what he's talking about.

First, no offense taken. Secondly, my point was more of an abstract anology than 1 to 1 ratio, but then again, Typewriters were replaced by word processors, and word processors were replaced by computers. I agree that PCs are superior to consoles, especially considering that an Xbox is essentially a stripped down PC dedicated to gaming. While I agree that KB/Mouse is far superior for FPS and RTS games, I still prefer Gamepads for "action" games. Not because I was conditioned to though. I prefer them because I'm a middle aged man that played games at Arcades in the 80s and joysticks and buttons were the norm.

Whenever a PC game forces me to use KB/Mouse I can't help but think, Holy-Hell, it's been 30+ years, can't you figure out how to implement a gamepad by now? I also agree that bringing Mods to conoles will be difficult. I have dabbled and made my own mods before. I'm no stranger to adding my Mod, hitting play, only to be greeted by an immediate CTD, BSOD. Still, I'd love to at least see "baby steps" in the direction of making it possible. Just my 2 cents.

I knew I picked a bad day to stop drinking....otherwise 'd be all over it :foodndrink:

A controller with 6 buttons is inferior to a keyboard and mouse in everyway.

It is fact, theres nothing subjective about it.

Yes, I realize that the installation alone is a process in its own right, and no, I have not modded games short of using the console to change doodads here and there. That's why I agreed when another user suggested that popular mods be free DLC. It promotes the modders, too.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only PC gamer who would rather browse and use mods than make them. It's a matter of preference (and time consumption, in some cases--I just can't spend weeks or months on an overhaul).

I can't imagine how miserable a person must be to wait and hope to pick fights.

A controller has something like three times that many buttons. And in case it eluded you, multiplatform games--including Skyrim and previous TES games--generally have the same number of actions that can be performed by the player regardless of platform. You can hotkey more items on a PC in Skyrim. That's about it. That is, your character, either during in-game time or within menus, can't do anything more on PC than he can on consoles.

In case it eluded you the lowest common denominator, that being console, decided how many actions the game can do.

The PC can only do what the max a controller can do.

Think before you speak next time.

+1, sadly. Also, I think the user is calling Todd Howard stupid :rofl:

Who said waiting to pick fights? I was waiting because I know somebody would be stupid enough to say, and more importantly, believe it.

Turns out I was right..


If he meant that 90% of Skyrim sales were on console then yes he is stupid.

If he was referring to his target audience, that's slightly different, but still based ultimately in stupidity.

I guess with the release of the game, the "mods on consoles" has gone bi-monthly...

... couple of musings... reiterated from the countless other threads...

Mods will work just fine on a console. Very specific mods are not going to work, such has high-res textures mods, or mods which require 3rd party scripting help, for obvious reasons, but, if you can add Shivering Isles to Oblivion on a console, if you can add DLC, you can add mods. Period.

"Oh, the best mods use FOSE"... hmmm.. what mods are "best", that's personal opinion. 1000's of downloads make the mod popular, but not essential to have. I have a gazillion mods for Oblivion, Fallout, NV, some that work in all 3 , that I make myself, which I feel make my game experience better, none of them needs FOSE.

"Oh, you need FOMM to manage your mods". No, you don't. Again, I have a gazillion mods for Ob-FO-NV, never used a mod manager.

Other than Sony and MS saying yes, there'd be some technical issues to adding user-made mods to consoles. I don't own a console, but I'd imagine one of the issues would be the PC-console tansport method; the mod cannot be created on the console, it has to be created on a PC, then transported and installed onto the console. That's going to be make testing mods a pain. It'd also needs to be a mechanism for deleting the mod if wanted. On a PC, I can go the the directory and delete the files; I don't know if the console hard drive can be accessed by the user.

And obviously the "console community" is going to have to learn to mod, since I doubt many of the PC modders are going to go through the trouble of modding for consoles...

Last thing, about the percentage of PC vs console players:
I hardly doubt that PC players only constitute 10% of TES players. Why? It costs Bethesda lots of money to port the game to PC. From a business perspective, it wouldn't make much sense to maintain a product for such a small number of customers considering the cradle-to-grave costs associated with developing and maintaining software.

Quick edit to add: the original thread had a poll, and that poll was missing the 'I don't care" option.

I know that. That's my point; consoles control the number of actions that can be performed (I'm pretty sure that constitutes thinking before I speak; that was too obvious for me to warrant a mention and was why I felt that it must be corrected--M&K cannot perform more actions than a gamepad). Therefore, controller choice is a preference, not an objective fact of superiority. Also, I do not know what you mean by consoles being the lowest common denominator.

Its a preference because your caveman $150 console uses it.

But beyond all that like i said M & K is superior in everyway.

Controllers use anolog for looking around.

Not good..

Prove its stupid. Otherwise be a man and admit you're wrong for being loudmouthed unnecessarily and trying to take a position of authority on something you have no business taking.

I think the moderators should come back to this thread and clean it up...lots of nasty posts here.

Serious pc gamers don't limit themselves to a simple keyboard and mouse. My setup has a mouse to my right, keyboard in center and the N52TE game pad on my left. I don't touch my keyboard when I play skyrim. No console joystick has macroable keys like my N52TE does. I can put my N52 on record mode, go through a slew of commands or multiple hotkey strokes as I fit, hit stop recording and profit.

Also on that N52, I can place 10 hotkeys just for my single left thumb, whereas a normal keyboard setup my thumb will probably be the least used body part on my hand.

Actually, I believe the onus is on the person making the original assertion. That means Todd howard, and anyone citing him. Basic reasoning tells you that seeing as PC sells around the 30% mark on pretty much all multiplatform games, it's pretty damn unlikely it would suddenly sell 20% less.

Also, I'm not being loudmouthed, I'm typing, and being reasonable at that. Being unwilling to blindly believe a piece of uncited media doesn't constitute being unnecessarily loudmouthed.

I don't think that has anything to do with the topic.

This thread has derailed, and we should get back on topic. I'm sorry if I contributed to that by responding to a K&M>gamepad post by saying that they are the same and neither is superior.

Nah, I am just going to close it. The salient points have been made many times, and we are not going to see mods on the console for Skyrim. Way too late in the game for that to happen. TES6 is the next hope.

Any future instances of this thread will be moved into the Series discussion anyway.