There are no rules about talking about other gaming companies on this forum. They are free to make all the comparisons they want. I mean no offense.

More on topic, sorry, but the tutorial didn't predetermine a background for me. They intentionally left it ambiguous so the player can decide what type of character they wanted to play, instead of having to choose from X amount of options (beyond race, gender, and class. Class is pretty fluid though).

I'm not vehemently opposed to something like DA:O, but probably something much more flexible rather than scripted would make more sense (that is, make it text based so that they can work a lot more options in, but give you lots of tools to select your hometown, family and acquaintances, childhood, formative years, character traits, why you were in prison, etc.). And they should at least give you a generic "mysterious past" option if you don't like anything presented.

Thing is, you can "make up your own origin story" in TES, but you can also make up a character's origin story outside of TES for all the good it will do. Either way, you're just using your imagination; it's not something that would ever be reflected in the game unless you created your own personal mod.

Actually, that's the one thing to recommend origins in TES over Bioware games -- if Bethesda gives us ten origin options, modders will probably create hundreds more. Of course, if you're renting a Microsoft or Sony system, that's of no use to you, I suppose.

I belive it would be epic with a origin feature, but I also like the prison feature, so lets say you could choose from a normal peasant, guard, villain or something else and make choices which effects how you got in jail, I would really have liked that.

Regards ~ Kvamme

17 to 80. Lol. I think we have our answer.

What that guy said.



I didn't say that they did. I just said that the tutorial was already linear in Oblivion, even more so, since you would have to go through the same tutorial again and again every time you start a new character, unlike Dragon Age where you had six openings to chose from. Ofcause you're in a more locked role in Dragon Age. You only have six backgrounds to chose from so you can't be some powerfull apostate. no if you want to be a mage, you'll have to go through the mage origin. This is the drawback of origin stories. But that dosn't mean the game would have to be linear in order to have that kind of origin stories. That's a lie. Ofcause The Elder Scrolls could have that kind of origin stories and still be a sandbox game. A more locked background has nothing to do with open world gameplay.



I asumme you accept the answer in the romance poll too then.

I don't have any problem with a system that lets you add some definition to your character's origin. Daggerfall's system wasn't too bad although it was too random for my tastes. Being able to choose some history elements also doesn't preclude something like starting in prison.

But why do we have to start in prison? Why do my character have to be a prisoner? I really think they should come up with something new, origin stories or not.

"No" and "No idea"

^ because it is a tradition :foodndrink: like in RPGs to be the CHOSEN ONE :whistling:

Tradition is no reason to stick with something
Starting in prison doesn't bother me one way or the other but always being the Chosen One does
Be nice to be a nobody who by their own achievements becomes somebody, rather than being somebody fated to do so-and-so from the start

Nah, who needs a background story?

The whole point of not knowing who you are is to enhance the fantasy.

QFT.



I do. Im fine with being the nobody who rises to fame, infact, thats pretty much the way i prefer it but it would be nice with atleast some background details. It dosn't have to be something like DA:O. I would be fine with just being able to pick some details... infact, if the only change they made was the ability for the player to write his own background in the journal, i would be happy.

no way.

Bioware is bioware and TES is TES.

Nah, let them be themselves not cheap knock-offs.

I agree. But, if you must have tradition, it is better that it be say, the beginning of a video game, or a holiday where you get to wear whatever you want and strangers have to give you candy, rather than any other tradition that dictates what you wear, eat, who you marry, etc etc etc.

In game origin story? No. But they need to find a way to incorporate stronger RPG elements without being restrictive, which is easier than it sounds.

Okay. Let's say your character is was a noble Knight. You are in prison because you were...framed, punished by an evil person of greater rank, guilty of a crime which had a noble cause.

You shouldn't need the opportunity to play as a noble Knight before you are thrown in prison, because that would be either super complicated, or incredibly linear for the infinite number of character types you can make. Even a company like Bethesda would have to favor linear, Dragon Age is supposedly a trilogy, so the origin itself is a full game, which would be pointless boring plagiarism for Bethesda to emulate.

Instead, the skill that you choose for your character will dictate hoe you play when you are out of prison, and therefore what you were probably like before prison. There should not be too much wiggle room, but there should be some growth. I actually just thought of a new system now, which I will put in the suggestion forum.

If you are a noble knight, then just accept "Perhaps the gods have placed you here so that we may meet" explanation.

I think you're implying that morality is faith based. I disagree.

However, the metaphysical reason for you being in prison (the why) does not explain the physical reason (the how). Why the gods let you be framed, or gave the wicked king power, or threw you in between a violent man and his victim in the middle of the street is a whole different problem.

If you are a knight of the empire or of any province, then you must believe in some deity of the empire or that province, otherwise you wouldn't be a knight working for political/greater figures for believe in those gods, and if you aren't working for a political/greater figure, then you aren't a knight.

That is for you to decide. Why you are in prison is up to you, but perhaps the gods literally placed you in a jail cell, especially when considering a prisoner wasn't supposed to be in your sell. Perhaps one of the gods used an Imperial legion avatar to put you in that prison cell. Coming up with a story behind your imprisonment is what is so great about not being told why.

I actually think that, gameplay wise, we agree that a "known" origin is not necessary.

Also, we both made the mistake of assuming that nobility was meant to mean "goodness" rather than simply a birthright of the upper class. So I disagree that you would have to follow a god in order to "work" for greater political figures, who themselves may be atheistic, although you could more simply not share their beliefs. The rank of knight simply implies that you were born of a landed family and have completed specific military training with the intention of serving your earthly lord. In medieval Europe, this was crowned with a religious ceremony, where you swore to serve your heavenly lord, but hey, I was baptized and that did me a lot of good. Also, its not a stretch to believe that by agreeing to serve a heavenly lord was just security, using faith to bind the warrior to the king who paid him.

On a related subject, I doubt anyone in the TES universe is truly an atheist, as the gods manifest themselves readily. It's not a matter of "belief" but "belief in omnipotence or supremacy over other gods." But you are very right when you say that a god's will, in this context, could be both the "why" as well as the "how."

[censored] no

But didn't Bethesda do the same thing before DA:O came out with Fallout 3? You didn't get to choose from multiple origins, but it basically served the same purpose -- slowly introduce your character to the game world so that you have some idea about the setting and themes, while also covering the gameplay basics and character creation. And it's not like it wasn't done numerous times before either company.

But due to the plot/setting etc of Fallout the possible origins were very limited. You had to come from a Vault
1 of the basic premises of TES is that you can have any background you want. Something like NWN2 that tries to give you a background but lets you play any character type you want inevitably there are characters that don't make much sense

Origins worked because the choice of race, class and background was very narrow. It worked very well especially the way the origins could have consequences throughout the game but I can't see the same sort of detailed background story working in a sandbox game

If they did origins they should go with a simpler Mount & Blade approach. Let you choose from a few broad choices, which can have a major affect early on. Basically, let you choose gender, upbringing, and career up to that point (noble, commoner, thief, merchant, etc.), and your starting relations are based around that. For example, being a noble in M&B give you considerable advantage early on. Diplomatically you have more sway with other lords and kings, you can command more soldiers right away, and you start with slightly better equipment.

Then all you need to do is have different beginnings and tutorials; noble arrives in his carriage, which is attacked by trolls; commoner carrying his meager life savings is abused by corrupt guards; thief begins in prison and has to break out; merchant arrives with a caravan, and is raided by bandits.

With enough simple, broad choices I think they could cover most ideas people have.

I was always curious about that, because I had a similar idea for TES. Obviously, being a noble has some advantages. You might start out with a full suit of low end armor and weapons, and probably the skills to use them.

What would a thief get? Lockpicks? Extra skill points to put towards sneak and security? I'm curious how that would be balanced.

For now though, I accept the start-in-jail approach. Everybody starts at zero. If you are a noble, then you do legal jobs, probably as a fighter, and earn yourself new weapons and armor. If you start off a thief, you sneak into someones house for gold, clothes, and jewelry, maybe pawning them for a nice dagger.

Your starting stats (and equipment to a lesser degree) reflect the choices you made. Choosing nobility just gives you a leg up in the beginning, it's actually described as an "easy mode" in Mount & Blade, so it's not really about balance anyway.

I like how Beth has done the openings, giving you the freedom to completely make up your own back story. I just think if they ever did origins, this would be a preferable set-up because of it's flexibility.

Though I do hope for the next TES the opening is more Morrowind than Oblivion. The plot begins to quickly in Oblivion which makes it seem weird to ignore it to do other things.

To the extent that the plot is linear and personal, sure. But not due to the setting. The main character of FO2 is not from a Vault, nor is the main character of New Vegas.



There's no reason they can't use a plot that doesn't shoehorn you into a particular background. All it really takes (even for a linear plot) is a single point of confluence -- landing in prison, getting a job as a courier, being inducted as a Gray Warden.