Im trying to maintain hope that attributes hav'nt been cut, but really at this point it wont surprise me if they have been.

The Save, Load & Exit functions were never in the menus. They always come up when you press start. Not when you go into the character menus. So we wouldn't see them anyway.

I chose "No".

I never cared much about attributes anyway. I used GCD in Morrowind and nGCD in Oblivion all the time.

Explain the acronyms?

No, I don't think attributes should be gone. In any case, I don't think they are truly gone. I think Bethesda has simply put them in the background, they will raise naturally based on the skills you are using (much like leveling mods such as GCD). I've no information that this is what they did, just a feeling.

Definitely "Yes", unless they've implemented an alternative satisfying, complex, and RP-ish method.

And Perks alone are no substitute for Attributes. There were both in Fallout 3, and by removing Attributes Bethesda is over-simplifying the game. AGAIN.

They are leveling mods.
GCD = Galsiah's Character Development
nGCD = Not Galsiah's Character Development.

Fuss is good. It means people care , which in turn means the game is anything except lackluster.

Attributes are key part in any RPG.
What I think is that they switch leveling system so that you automaticly improve your attributes as your skills get better. Like nGCD does.


And if there is no attributes at all, only perks. How is your characters strength, agility, endurance and other character traits different from other characters in the world. Perks can't do that alone.

Bethesda is a profesional game designing company, there good at this sort of thing. i trust their judgement.

Nobody commented on the fact that if Strength is gone, this mean we get a limitless (or fixed size) inventory.

Well I don't believe they got rid of attributes. They just have a new way of raising them. It's not good to just assume they're not there, they didn't say one way or the other. So just wait until you hear official word, then you can come back and recreate this thread. Hmm, but it might be true because a lot of what the attributes did in the other games was to raise health, magicka, and fatigue right? And they've gave that ability to the play now. If they have gotten rid of attributes I'm going to be interested in how they govern the amount you can carry, your luck, magicka resistance, magicka regeneration, starting health(assuming it's different for every player), health gain per level(assuming it's different for every player), etc

Whilst I would be perfectly content with the removal of attributes, I'm quite skeptical as to whether or not the perks system can really fill its shoes. If there are cumulative perks such as "your mace is able to penetrate armor by 0.4x(blunt) percent", then fine. But if most of them are just going to be static gimmicks, I'm not quite as certain.

I don't share your optimism. Bethesda seems to screw something up with each Elder Scrolls. Morrowind had clunky combat, Oblivion had level scaling and now Skyrim has the loss of attributes. Other things may make up for it and the sheer scope of Skyrim should ensure that it will be a gem like Morrowind and Oblivion before it, but this just may have made leveling up meaningless.

By the way, seeing a bunch of new names, so to anyone signing up here recently:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r105/Enoil/ImperialFishyStick.jpg


come and get it.

Yes they should. And they should forget about how much easier it is without them. Attributes are a core part of an RPG, if they do get them away, what we have is but a glorified actionadventure with "skills" - and with "skills" I mean of minor efffectants to the gameplay.

With a level cap of 50, and perks every level, they almost have to include the option to increase attributes in the perk list. One of the issues, IMHO, with Fallout and FONV is that your character is overpowered near the end of the game, and everything becomes too easy, even on hardcoe/Very Hard. I like the idea of perks, and I like the idea of a high level cap, but they'll have to work hard to get a reasonable balance (very gradual improvement through perks). It's very likely that it will require mods to get it right, but it would be nice if Bethesda doesn't overdo it, and make the game into a snorefest halfway through the game.

It's not simplification of the game...The game is getting even more intricate than any of the other games save maybe Daggerfall. Whenever you guys lose a few of your precious skill no matter how useless they are you cry about them dumbing down the game when it's not dumbing down, it's a change in direction of the game is welcome as long as the game is good which they always are. This is the same reason that so many people on these forums hated Morrowind because you didn't even give it a chance, you just shot it down as a dumbed down version of Morrowind, which overall, was a meh game, it's only redeemable value is the story. It's not dumbing down or or simplifying the game, it's changing it for the better. Like I said last night, if you had actually played all the TES game you would've noticed that as the series progressed, attributes became less and less useful to the point in Oblivion where they were negligible. Now in Skyrim, Bethesda realized that they had outlived their usefulness and repurposed them in different parts of the game. The attributes are still in the game but you won't be manipulating them with points, you have better things to customize your character now than useless attributes. So stop complaining and making yourself so blind the a good game because you are think it's not fair they removed a few skills, I'd rather not see Skyrim be denounced like you denounced Oblivion with no merit behind your accusations.

I don't have the magazine, so I only have sub-par scans to go off and I don't quite remember if this is correct, but wasn't it worded that upon leveling up you can select Stamina, Health or Mana to give a small "boost" to? That doesn't necessarily imply that attributes are gone, it sounds to me like it could be that, in addition to attribute increases, you can further boost which ever one benefits you more (Mana for Mage, Health for Warrior, Stamina for Thief, etc...). At least, that's my hopeful interpretation of it.

Cite please?

See, that is where all of this gets really creative.

okay. assuming Skyrim is removing attributes, assuming you can't level those up anymore.

who cares? i mean seriously, why does this matter? how does cutting out superfluous bits of the system mean they're runing the game? everybody's pretty just saying MORE STATS = BETTER RPG.

if they are gone, i fully welcome the change. TES has been closer to an adventure game than an RPG since Morrowind, anyway, and i'm tired of games that just throw in remnants of pen and paper systems because they can't come up with more interesting solutions.

I know.

^_^

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There is an old saying.

Better a devil you know than a devil you don't.

This. This is what I've been trying to convey. They are still in the game because they are required for what you do but they have been removed from your access of direct manipulation because that form of customization has out lived it's usefulness and has been replaced with new, even more immersive customization. Just please don't be Doomsaying when you haven't even played the game people...