Apologies in advance if there have been topics regarding this already. I have used the search function to no avail.

We have known for a while now that Dogmeat and other companions cannot die, and the video below released by Bethesda earlier today states that Dogmeat dying is essentially a reload scenario. While a lot of players will reload when a companion dies, a lot of others won't. Catering for the one side, while leaving the other out is a bit silly. It will be easy enough to have an option in the Settings which you can toggle on/off for killable followers.

We all know that some of the most popular mods will be to make companions killable. I can just see "Die Dogmeat Die"`, "Dogmeat Must DIe" and other such aptly named mods being on the front page of the Nexus.

Bethesda are big on the player being able to create their own experience, but things like this put limits on that. If a companion dies and you prefer to live with the consequences then it will offer a different experience, allow for more roleplaying options and may improve on the replayabilty of the game.

It shouldn't be hard to implement and there will be a great many people who will be anxiously waiting for mods like this to come out, when they really shouldn't be needed.

Having a toggleable option 'just works'. In all seriousness though ou please everyone, and no one is left out.

EDIT: Added 'It should be optional' to the poll...and that's what I answered. I'm more for allowing companions to be killable, but ultimately it should be up to the player how they want to play.

It will be nice to see everyone's thoughts on this, so let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uonUCBk70JA

IMHO it should simply be optional

It should be a toggle. Sometimes if I'm doing a more realistic roleplay I want to know that my actions have irreversible consequences. Other times it's just an annoyance. Even playing hardcoe mode in New Vegas, I'd reload a save if my companion died so I think their approach is a reasonable one.

I thought companions were killable while they weren't your companion? So that if you want to murder a companion just fire the companion first, or not hire the companion in the first place, before killing it. Is Dogmeat immortal even while it isn't a companion? Are they all?

Yes all of them should be killable in every game mode difficulty. Not optional. It's stupid to have NPC's not killable.

I said no, but only because their AI is so terrible. If they actually had good Ai I'd be all for them being killable.

Yes. But I'm happy with using mods for this.

When I made this poll in the beginning of the summer most people said they should be unkillable. Maybe I worded the question wrong.

The whole reason they started making some npcs essential with Oblivion is because they kept getting themselves killed. Morrowind didn't have it because Morrowind's npcs never went anywhere or did anything and thus were never in any danger unless you killed them. But with the introduction of radiant ai in Oblivion npcs travel around and do things and as a result get themselves killed fairly often without any actions by the player unlike in Morrowind. I have found the corpses of named npcs on the roads many times as they tried to travel between towns. I have seen City-Swimmer get herself killed by the Bravil city guard for stealing food.

So to keep quests from breaking themselves do to quest related npcs getting themselves killed they introduced essential npcs. It wasn't an elegant solution. But it beats having quests be broken because an npc got itself killed while you weren't looking.

Protected npcs, introduced in Skyrim, aren't any better. Seeing a protected npc get beat down till it is almost dead at which point enemies ignore it, then it recovers, and get beat nearly to death again repeatedly is still immersion breaking. And protected npcs can still be killed by poison or area of effect attacks thus leaving us again with the problem of npcs getting themselves killed and thus quests potentially breaking themselves once again.

I don't see a solution. I don't want npcs to go back to never going anywhere or doing anything like in Morrowind. But neither of the two attempted solutions are ideal either.

Too much friendly fire so why would I want to reload

i said no, bc if my companions die i will reload over and over or not use it, not bc i care about it, is bc i know there isnt a AI that work like a person so they will end getting kill no meter what.

It's more of a non-factor for me, either way. I get what Todd's talking about. Watching a companion rush ahead because they sense an enemy only to step on a trap and eat it doesn't add to the overall story any. The only real loss here is that Bethesda won't write in any fail-states for dead companions (like you rushing over to a dead dogmeat for a little animation to start to play where you can pick him up and bring him someplace to bury after saying a few words with the new voiced mc) or quests moving on, ext.

As with most things, mods will steer things more towards my taste in games, and that's good enough for me. Bad things should be able to happen to the player outside of scripted events.

Remember in Skyrim, those rock traps in the overworld alongside roads? They'd drop a bunch of boulders infront of you, and while it was childsplay for you to navigate through them, you're horse following behind you was already as good as dead. Less a tragic moment of organic storytelling, and more swearing as all your items transferred back to your person.

yeah i agree with u, companions AI arent as good as a player, and they will end getting kill A LOT on stupid moments.

But i will love if my companions can die trow companion quest, i know it svck since is script but if the quest is cool and u didnt met some points trow it and your companion die at the end will be cool.

I'd like it to be optional for the players who prefer it, though I'll admit I'd never use said option. Every time a companion died in HC Mode in New Vegas, I immediately reloaded. Personally, I see killable companions as a frustration. Others, however, see it as immersive and an enjoyable part of the experience, even an added challenge to keep companions alive throughout the game. So I'd like them to be able to have that, despite not wanting it myself.

Yeah, the AI was always a problem when it came to companions. The fact they would just run off toward the enemy and get killed by traps, mines, etc could get really frustrating.
Even though I prefer not to I would reload from time to time due to the AI, but I think a middle ground of having a toggleable option for killable companions would be better. Bethesda games are all about choice after all.

I would have posted in that thread, instead of starting this. The search function didn't prove much use unfortunately.

And I made all NPC's killable in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and none of the NPC's have ever died from other NPC's.

NPC's that were essential in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion have died twice on me since 2006 when I purchased The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

In The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim I have killed one essential NPC by mistake I accidentally killed her when I kept swinging my sword on a enemy NPC.

My mods and other PC gamers who have made mods like mine are proof that if you make all NPC's killable that they will not always get killed by other NPC's or some other reasons like falling off of a 50 foot cliff, etc.

I do not understand why people keep telling me this when I can prove them wrong.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove someone elses.

one thing is NPC, other are companions, my companions on Fallout 3 tent to die to mines a lot more inside buildings, i end not using companions too, since i love the idea of a "far" approach with my sniper rifle and my companion always run there, and get kill or in the middle of the line of fire.

Interesting. None of the NPC's that were essential have ever died to me when I play Fallout 3 with the mod I made that disables essential NPC's.

For The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I have the same exact save file from 2006 when I purchased The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion right after I made my mod that disables all essential NPC's and makes all quest items dropable.

I still play that mod from time to time and since 2006 only two NPC's that were essential have died. I keep that save file to keep testing the NPC's to see how often they die if they are not essential.

I believe Sesom a member on these Bethesda Softworks forums who is part of a big mod he makes can also tell you a lot about how to make NPC's not to get killed by other NPC's or random events.

I Don't Care, because I'd prefer not to use companions at all.

On the other hand, It Should Be Optional, because some people are masochists and think that irrational levels of frustration is "difficulty". So let them enjoy themselves. While the rest of us can play the game without awful AI, physics errors, and various other issues, screwing up the story. (I did use companions a bit in FO:NV, due to the quest/story content attached to them. And taking Veronica into the final Dam battle was a joke - she died nigh-instantly to every single group of melee Legion dudes we encountered. If it had been set to companion-death as a default, that would have just been impossible.)

Yeah sure I think frustration is "difficulty". When in reality I want consequences and consequences that happen with the choices I make.

I don't want video games to be automated and do everything for me.

Like armor and weapons never breaking or having infinite health or having health regenerate so I can be a god? No, no I want to feel pain and go heal by sleeping or eating or taking medicine. I want to maintain my armor.

I want to feel emotions or something when my companions or followers die. I want to feel sad when I fail a quest.

They'd have to actually attach deep & involved stories to companions, and give you some connection to them, for a companion dying to be anything other than an annoyance. And Bethesda has never done that. (Bioware, sure.... Mordin dying in ME3 was effecting. Because we'd gotten to know him through a game and a half of heavily-scripted story by that point. And had plenty of "cutscene"/movie-style conversations & interactions with him.

Bethesda's open world, non-linear, sandboxes don't have these story-long, plot-involved, interesting interactions with NPCs. Because we're not stuck in a party with six companions who are constantly around us, involved in everything. We might or might not bother taking them along on things, where they might or might not have anything to say or do about what's happening. What connection? What emotions?

Failing a quest due to making a bad decision, or not being good enough/fast enough? Sure, choices & consequences. Failing a quest because the idiot you're escorting decided to clip into a shopping cart, or because a deathclaw strafed some NPCs on the other side of a world cell from you? Annoyance, frustration, and bad gameplay.

It depends on if they FINALLY implement a simple check into friendly AIs:

Does Player have weapon drawn? Check: Yes.

Am I within 45 degree arc in front of Player? Check: Yes

Does Player have reticle centered on a NPC? Check: Yes

If all 3 criteria are met, THEN MOVE OUT of the 45 degree front zone!!!

I don't know how many times I killed a follower from a stealth bullet/arrow in any TES/FO game. I'll line up the shot and as soon as I fire/loose my idiot companion would decide to walk in front of me.

Although I've got high hopes after watching 'exploration' trailer; Dogmeat's clearly holding pace with PC to the front and left. But this could just be idle behavior.

Edit: Grammatical errors.