So, you don't think there's a difference between any game involving risk/death, and actual survival games like Stranded Deep or The Long Dark? Games where survival is the entire task - find the resources needed (food, water, medicine to maintain your health, shelter & clothing to protect from the elements, etc) to survive is literally the entire game. As opposed to an RPG where you're interacting with people/making decisions/playing a story/etc, where the basics of "survive" are guaranteed if it weren't for the fact you deliberately seek out danger (questing/adventuring). Or an ARPG like Diablo, where sure - you need to not die - but the GOAL isn't "survive" it's kill stuff/level up/TREASURE!

"Zombies" doesn't make a game or movie automatically "horror", any more than two characters having a relationship automatically makes a movie a romance. You do understand, for instance, that Alien and Aliens are two different genres of movies, right? One is a Suspense/Thriller, the other is a Miltary/Action movie?

(Also, saying "Fallout isn't a Survival Horror game" doesn't mean I think it is/should be a rainbow-filled walk in the mall with puppies. Genre has little to do with difficulty - you can have a super-easy Survival Horror game or a super-hard one. You can have a super-easy Sports game, or a super-hard one. You can have a super-easy RPG or a super-hard one. Genre has no bearing on that. Survival Horror is a specifically-defined genre of games - which I'm guessing you didn't follow that link to look at the article about it - with an array of characteristics that Fallout does not have.)

...really, your insistance that every game is a Survival game because you can die, ranks right up there with the people saying every game is an RPG because "hey, you're playing a Role! Whether it's a character you made, or Mario jumping on platforms, it's still a role!"

You nailed my emotions from F3. What really hit me viscerally in that game, were the unexpected feelings of loss, loneliness, emptiness, sadness and general melancholy that would constantly creep in as I wandered about and explored that dead, broken world. I didn't get that as much with NV, which was more of a 'wild west with occasional mutants' kind of experience. There was more of a feeling of there being 'normal', semi-civilized life all around you in that game, albeit with plenty of opportunities for fighting and killing. Being part of a faction and having multiple companions added to that feeling of not really being all that alone. But F3 kicked you in the gut and told you "you're it, dude- stay low, trust nothing, and survive or die by your own wits... and if you kark it, nobody anywhere gives a damn'. There were more than a few times when sneaking around over some barren ridge amidst the charred stumps of trees, broken concrete and rusted out hulks of family cars, that i'd stop and crouch down and just look out for a while into the horizon of wreckage and dust and emptiness as far as the eye could see. Then I'd happen to glance down and find a tiny skeleton laying in a hollow clutching a forgotten toy in what was once a hand. Yeah. Some things are subtly scarier, and stick in your mind longer, than a ghoul jumping out of a closet behind you.

I don't get the impression F4 will be much like that, though, as it will probably have a lot more of the human civilization aspect to it, with MIT and all. More of a NV feel to it, with more towns, settlements, factions, companions, your own custom homes, etc. Guess we'll see.

You casically say that if it is not pure survival game then it is not a survival game at all. Not sure if i should accept that argument, because at same time you call resident evil a survival game. That is a contradiction.


If those two are in romantic relationship then yes, it is totaly enough to call it a romantic movie. You can't ignore contest in those cases.


First, Aliens is not even a genre, it is a franchise at best. Second, just because there are alliens that dosn't mean it is horror, that is correct, but if they want to eat you, and like jumping on you in the dark, then it is definitely a horror. Even if that is just a part of the game.


Have YOU read that article? Let me repost mein part of that article:

Survival horror is a subgenre of video games inspired by horror fiction that focuses on survival of the character as the game tries to scare the player(s). Although combat can be a part of the gameplay, the player is made to feel less powerful than in typical action games, because of limited ammunition, health, speed, vision, or other limitations. The player is also challenged to find items that unlock the path to new areas, and solve puzzles at certain locations. Games make use of strong horror themes, and the player is often challenged to navigate dark maze-like environments, and react to unexpected attacks from enemies.

It is an exact definition of a fallout game!

So.... Thor is a Romance, because of the romantic sub-plot between Thor & Jane Foster? Not, say, an Action movie?

I'm beginning to suspect that English is not your primary language. I did not say that "Aliens" was a genre. Not remotely. It's a movie in the "Military" and "Action" genres, following typical conventions of similar movies. Unlike the first movie in the franchise, which followed the conventions of the Suspense/Thriller genre.

I'm sorry, but that description doesn't fit the Fallout games. At all. The games aren't "inspired by horror" (they're science fiction), the game does not "try to scare the player". "Although combat can be a part of the gameplay, the player is made to feel less powerful than in typical action games" isn't remotely the case.

I honestly have no idea how you're seeing things this way. It's entirely incomprehensible to me.

There's no point in continuing this, as I believe we will never understand each others' point of view.

No, because fallout does not make strong use of horror themes. It also doesn't try to scare you. Sure you can have an enemy blidside you, and it may give you a start, but the game isn't built with those interactions as a base for gameplay.
Fallout is neither a survival or a horror game, let alone both.

Don't need to panic that much, just admit you were wrong. To make it even more obvious ill break it down for you in a science style:

So definition say: Survival horror is a subgenre of video games inspired by horror fiction that focuses on survival of the character as the game tries to scare the player(s). Although combat can be a part of the gameplay, the player is made to feel less powerful than in typical action games, because of limited ammunition, health, speed, vision, or other limitations. The player is also challenged to find items that unlock the path to new areas, and solve puzzles at certain locations. Games make use of strong horror themes, and the player is often challenged to navigate dark maze-like environments, and react to unexpected attacks from enemies.

"inspired by horror fiction"

there are thausends of post apocaliptic horror movies and i even remember reading somewhere that original fallout was inspired by one of those, so... check!

"the player is made to feel less powerful than in typical action games"

unlike usual shoters, in fallout there are enemys that are just too strong for you to kill, ... check!

"limited ammunition, health, speed, vision, or other limitations"

all this exists in fallout,... check!

"The player is also challenged to find items that unlock the path to new areas, and solve puzzles at certain locations"

lots of this in fallout, ... check!

"make use of strong horror themes, and the player is often challenged to navigate dark maze-like environments"

many such places as well, ... check!

"react to unexpected attacks from enemies"

and check again!

So if some zombie jumps on you from the dark in some dark corridor in resident evil it is "trying to scare", but if EXACT same thing happens in fallout it is not?

Unless this game goes straight into horror genre there is almost no chance of there being anything scary.

We're just used to everything. Giant mutants, Big monsters, Deathclaws, Oversized bugs, Raiders, Death everywhere, and corpses decorating the areas in various ways. None of these are scary any more because we've seen them so often. Pretty much the only thing that scares people nowadays is atmosphere and jumpscares. Nobody likes jumpscares and in a game like this there's no chance for atmospheric kind of scaring either.

Besides, for some people who have problems with bugs it's already too scary lol.

In my reply, I mentioned that there are things in game that will give you a start- and that is fine- I enjoy some of this, but like I alluded to above, it isn't a cornerstone of the game play.
That's the distinction, here.
There are things that can give a scare, and I don't dispute or have any problems with that. But the franchise simply isn't one where horror is a focal point- and frankly, it shouldn't be. This isn't S.T.A.L.K.E.R..

As for your resident evil example. The cameras in that game are at angles they are, specifically to add to the horror aspect of the game. Those zombies are scripted to jump out and scare you; there is considerable foresight in developing those games to achieve this.
In Fallout? They are in a spawning area, just roaming around. You also have perception, letting you know where enemies are at. For the most part . in Fallout, if you are startled, it is because you aren't paying attention.
And that speaks volumes. You won't always be paying the most attention in FO, because you're not expecting to be scared around every corner.
You pay much more attention in a game like RE, specifically because it is out to scare you; you anticipate it- the resulting hyper vigilance actually adds to the tension.
This is simply not the way FO is.

FO's horror is the horror of humanity.
Not horror movie horror.

Have you ever play this games?....

Of course this games should be scary and depressing.

Have you hear the sound design of the atmosphere/ambient from the new video they uploaded but with the same gameplay? You can clearly hear the dark and twisted feeling this game gives with a slice of hope in the sound design of it. Is brilliant

Here -----> https://youtu.be/GrX-QT19Ro0

I think Vault 34 in New Vegas is an example of Fallout failing at attempting the scare thing. You would go in an empty room and then ferals would spawn behind you at certain trigger points and I just found it annoying, especially since I was already worried about my Rad levels. If they do include more horror elements, I hope they are more psychological than jumping out at you startling.

Fallout games are not remotely survival horror games, nor should they ever be. The most recent of these style of games would be alien isolation, which I will never play since I pretty much had the game scenario as a recurring dream for a decade.

However Fallout does draw from the same well in some ways, especially if your low on ammo crawling through a subway and you hear large numbers of that damn sound ghouls makes when they think they have heard you.....or the first time you run into a deathclaw attacking at close range from behind.

However if your stomping through the same area in Power Armor with a minigun it just isn't about survival.

Fallout's survival element is often situational and is often more due to how much ammo you have left than anything else, I often mowed my way through feral ghouls, shooting of a round or two to draw them to me before going to town with head shots, put me in the same situation with a handful of bullets and I'm forced to play more stealthy and make every shot count.

The Dunwich Building and The Krivbekneh from FO3 are based on the stories of HP Lovecraft. The setting for Lovecraft's stories tend to be Boston and/or the general area around Boston. I have a feeling beth may very well have expanded mythos as far as the Dunwich Building and some of the events of Point Lookout are concerned.

I wouldn't want to see these elements become an overwhelming part of the game but I feel they can be utilized properly, especially given the setting.

@Helljumper Yep. It's official genre is "post-apocalyptic role-playing". Although it does have elements of survival and horror, it also has many elements of adventure and role-playing. If a Fallout game were to take place entirely in, lets say the Dunwich Building, that would be survival horror.

I think that's one of the things that makes Fallout so great. One moment you can be fighting mercenaries on a battlefield, and another you're sneaking around a creepy old building filled with ghouls.

I can see them expanding the Lovecraftian type of stuff, for sure.

But agreed. it should be used conservatively. Not only so it doesn't distract from the rest of the game, but so it makes those elements stand out and dare I say, more spooky.

I dont really remember it being particularly spooky.....maybe because I was a heavily armoured and armed killing machine at that point, also I was singing along to the music.

Maybe I should try it again.

I have said many times before that I would love an entire DLC that expanded on the ideas put forth in Dunwich Building and the "Black heart of Blackhall" quest, which is to say a Lovecraft inspired DLC.

FO4 being in Boston I do think we will be seeing some Lovecraftian sidequests and/or locations.

As for the topic of if Fallout should be scarier, I feel that an enhancement of the ambience present in FO3 would be just the right amount of unnerving for the series. It seema we may be getting that in certain areas of the wastes as illustrated in the trailer when you can see the deathclaw traversing a brown foggy irradiated desert with the broken electrical tower in the background

Well, ya. It wasn't that scary. This is why I say spooky. Eerie and supernatural, more than actual horror.

So, the Dunwich/Blackhall stuff doesn't really cover the criteria of adding truly scary elements in FO.
This is why I mentioned perhaps a sidequest, or location in the sticks earlier, instead of saying "more lovecraft".

To have an actual scary part, I envision something involving a unique enemy. Say one that travels through shadow and moves with quick spurious attacks, who is attached to a story/location that isn't referenced elsewhere in the game, other than by say a quest giver.
This way, you don't know what to expect, and even battling the beast could need to be done in an unfamiliar way, at least when compared to other enemies. A situation, where they can really craft it to actually be scary- because that is the unique focus of that unique location.
All with the contrast of the rest of the game would really make it pop.

I only just started playing Fallout 3, but I have done 1 & 2 plus elder scrolls since Morrowind, but I really don't see a survival aspect other than managing health and radiation. You can go without sleep or food forever as far as I know. You don't die from weather (heat or cold) that I know of. It's just not a factor in Bethesda' s style of RPG.

And there is a difference between suspense and horror. I don't want F.E.A.R. or Doom 4 with a pipboy. But some suspense and scary atmosphere and select horrorish quests would be fine.

And I think Fallout 3 has that, at least it had when I was new to it. Now I just run around like the goof I am

I want to have someplace with creepy whispers in the background like vault 22 in FNV. Something thats not over-the-top paranormal but subtle because it makes you think "is it really haunted or is my character hearing things? Even though it's not that scary it's definitely nerve racking and messes with my head

Should Fallout be scarier?

I think the past games have shown there are scary moments quite well ! But the series is not the equivalent of a ghoul or zombie fest full of carnivorous enemies. You can experience fear in a variety of ways, sometimes it's just the ambience of the location, such as Dunwich. Heck, the Lucky 38 still creeps me out, because of it's dusty, emptied look, and the eerie radiation storm music track playing as you explore it. I enjoy that type of mental impact over being startled by a deathclaw from behind far more, because it has time to build and grow on you.

Looking at Fallout 4, looks like there's at least one area reminiscent of Pt, Lookout, with moss covered dead trees and a shack with what looked like an ancient ghoulish woman limping around it. I'm sure there will be other moments to discover like that.

I hope to be able to build an awesome stronghold in this area! I shall call it... Blackmire!

I'm replaying The Yaoi Guia Tunnela in FO3. I Feel they did good with the amvbience and how the yaoi guai sneak up on you while you are looting the prewar clutter. That and the yao guias running past you into other parts of the tunnels which I think are scripted events

you realy want to make it scaryer, just add in the guys who came up with some of the more insane Retailer exclusive game bundles.