You ask me, Ghouls are almost like an "anti Vampire." All weakness but with none of the strengths. You can put a romantic spin on a Vampire (a la Anne Rice,) but almost by definition you can't romanticize being a Ghoul. If you were to do that "hey, being a Ghoul isn't so bad look at all the cool things I can do," then I think you'd be chewing at the very fabric of what a Ghoul is supposed to be in the Fallout universe and the role they have to play in it.

Besides, to do it correctly you'd have to alter how just about every NPC responded to you - people do not like Ghouls, as a general rule. I think it would be a lot of work for not much gain, and even then it'd not necessarily be a "gain" that I'd appreciate or agree with.

Why vampirism can be cured: Magic.

No really. In a fantasy setting you can really just make up whatever you want to and chalk it up to being some old ancient forgotten god or whatever and be done with it. It'd be better if there was quality writing behind it but I mean really, it's magic. You don't really have to explain anything. But ghoulification is a mutation in Fallout. Everything should have a decent explanation for how it works and why and once you've written yourself into a corner there isn't a magic shortcut. SCIENCE! is not magic. SCIENCE! is simply used whenever something is literally scientifically impossible to make it possible and even then it should be used very very carefully as if you don't you risk whatever you're creating becoming absolutely absurd and ridiculous. And Fallout was never meant to be absolutely absurd and ridiculous. It had humor, sure and even the occasional oddity and absurdity but it was space out and it was often very very minor things.

Point I'm trying to make is that SCIENCE! is not magic. You can't use SCIENCE! as an excuse for everything. There needs to be a plausible explanation for why things work and SCIENCE! should be avoided at all costs, it should be indulged just to make whatever they want to add into the game a possibility. And even then, SCIENCE! needs to still be explained. With magic, you don't have to explain everything. You can simply go "this magic's real" and that's that. Why hasn't that magic been seen before? Oh it was lost, or it was ancient or you are someone like the Dragonborn and can utilize this magic through your specific bloodline. But you can't just shove in SCIENCE! wherever you please and think that's enough.

Is a cure feasible? Sure. With good enough writing it could be possible. But why would the player be so special as to attain it in the first place? I mean, it's [censored] writing IMO when plot convenience is used too often and the player character gets way too much of that as it is. Being able to turn into a ghoul and then being in the region where a cure for ghouls is under way is far too convenient and reeks of bad writing to me. Why would it come without any drawbacks? Cause we're talking about the equivalent to a cure to vampirism which means it's removed entirely, bonuses as well as drawbacks so you're back to being a human. Why would the people working on it work on it at all? With all the things that scientific communities would strive towards why would they bother with creating a cure for a set of mutants most of them despise? I mean, most ghoul communities we've seen aren't exactly exploring science. So it'd have to be a human community. And, well, why would they bother? Followers Of The Apocalypse might try to do it but they aren't exactly high-tech or anything. So who would do it? Why would they do it? How could they do it? And why should the player even have access to it in the first place?

In a fantasy game you can use any kind of cop out excuse you want to and players don't really have to question the validity of it all too much but this isn't a fantasy game. It's a post-apocalyptic game that works within its own setting's idea of "science".

Can it be done? Most likely, yeah. Hell, a giant robot scorpion is a thing in Fallout. Should it be done? No. Because a giant robot scorpion is a thing in Fallout. Fallout is not TES. If you want to become a ghoul then you are then a ghoul. There is no easy way out. You're stuck. You're a ghoul. Don't like it? Then don't become a ghoul in the first place. The player shouldn't be given anything (s)he asks for, and if the player doesn't like it then it is up to him/her to accept that you don't always get what you want. Ghoulification is not vampirism and should not be treated as an equivalent to it.

Remember that Fallout 3 was called Oblivion With Guns.

The original ghouls in Fallout, the ones in necropolis that shuffle about and at times can attack I see as ghouls who are on their way to becoming feral. Their minds are going but aren't completely gone.

Ferals are weird. Especially Glowing, and Reavers. Maybe they're radiation addicts, which is why they wig out when someone gets near them. That would be an interesting theory to build upon.

Of course there should be on/off ghoulification. It's Fallout so anything goes. It's SCIENCE! mang. The player should also be able to transform into a dog so s/he can http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/99/47/cc7287eaa930bb7ebc2f8032e0b1a95e.gif, and get a cure for that too once it gets bothersome.

Player freedom.

So if ghoul players actually faced all the same hardships that a ghoul is supposed to face would that alleviate the fears of those against it?

Well Vampirism came from Molag Bal so it could just come down to countering his magic with some other kind of magic. I don't know how science can make so someone who would be dead if they wasn't a ghoul return to being a normal human. You'll probably have a better chance turning Super Mutants and Nightkin back to normal humans before Ghouls.

The problem I see with people wantint to be a ghoul is the same I see with people wanting to be a vampire. People hated once you became a level 4 vampire in Skyrim people attacked you on sight even if that's the type of stuff a vampire might have to deal with. I could see the same with being a ghoul. People will hate that the BoS and other people will shoot them on sight or not let them into their settlement. People say they want to be a ghoul but they don't want to deal with hardship a ghoul face.

Also I think there should always be risk of your character going feral.

It won't happen though. Bethesda is against having players actually face hardships and consequences. It is also a tall order for any developer not just Bethesda to have so many alterations put into a game for a chance as big as becoming a ghoul. It would change pretty much everything.

And in the end if they did do all that... part of me would still worry about "hey there is a cure out there go find it!"

Giant robot scorpion? Sounds like Wasteland 2 which is funny because I often felt like I was playing Fallout 2 while playing it.

Anyway, no I don't think it should be like vampirism. I think if there's a cure available it should definitely be a 1 shot thing and should not be something easy to obtain at all. I mean like first hearing a rumor about a possible cure. Along with a bizarre story surrounding it, with absolutely no quest markers at all. There would have to be some serious detective work finding it.

That would make it worth it, I think.

Some people find the Ghoul ladies quite attractive sometimes....*Coughs into hand* Errr, not me. I-I'm not into that kind of [censored].

But then the question comes down to who in the wasteland is smart enough to be able to find a cure. Outside of the Think Tanks I can't really think of anyone.

I don't think Bethesda cares about such things as details like that. After all in Fallout 3 we have wastelanders smart enough to change people's faces and other complex operations with no real scientific background that we know of so a cure shouldn't be to hard to make happen.

"Hey remember that ghoul in Underworld working on a cure? Well he found it. Enjoy!"

That's what would make it totally worth it! Maybe a few ghouls tried finding it, but got killed somehow in their journey leaving behind another piece of the puzzle. It could be done without it being ridiculously difficult.

That's pretty false, Styles. The only NPC who can change your face in Fallout 3 is Dr. Pinkerton, the man who helped found Rivet City as a science hub in the Capital Wasteland. Plus he also is said to have gotten his hands on the tech needed to do the surgery without making the patient look like 'a freaking ghoul' according to the holotape.

The question isn't "could it be done?" It is "should it be done?"

And what is Pinkerton's background? Who made him a Doctor? My point is that if Bethesda needs a smart person to explain something they will just make one up.

the institute maybe? Dr.zimmer made it sound like they could match the think tank's smarts.

I don't think anyone in fallout is technically a doctor as there is no official medical body around apart from maybe the followers? and pinkerton used a machine to change your face which would require a lot less knowledge than doing it by hand

Why not?

You wouldn't like to see some quests without quest markers?

I think doing a quest like that, there should always be clues, then other clues casting doubt on whether a cure even exists. Personally I'd love to see some epic side quests.

I have already explained my reasons for why I wouldn't like it many times by now in this thread alone and so have others.

Well thank you, I do appreciate that; and I concede that I do prefer the older mechanics over the new... but it's not for not weighing them both, and is partly [in this case] Fallout specific. There are a lot of mechanics that I'd love to see in a lot of games ~including in Fallout spin-offs, and yet not in a Fallout sequel.

If you ask me, they are the anti-elves.

Quest Markers should indicate pertinent locations that the character knows about. Ideally [IMO] they should be wrong when the character is wrong about what they *know*. (I don't expect that to happen in a Bethesda title.)

If they point at an individual, they should point to where the character believes them to be, not where they actually are; and certainly not in realtime as they move ~unless the PC is looking at them.

Obtaining a true, by our standards, doctorate in the Wastes is a pretty pedantic thing to try and measure since odds are no scientist or doctor of the Post-War world is to our standards. But I do believe his lasting accomplishments of Rivet City should speak to testament of his scientific abilities. Bethesda does have an issue with good detail/vague detail in random places, but to just shirk Pinkerton off as 'random wastelander' is pretty gratuitous disregard.

He is random in that he is just there and no background given. As some has pointed out he used a machine to do what he did. If that is the case then that would bring his skills more in line with what someone with no real training might be able to pull off. If there was an auto doctor or something like that involved sure why not.

Point being I doubt Bethesda will go through the trouble of explaining a cure. If they want one they will just have one. If they did put in ghoulification but didn't add a cure quest, they will just add a cure option with a later DLC or path or something.

And you're just ignoring things for the sake of it. I just pointed out that Pinkerton HAS a background. We don't know his whole life story, but we know enough relevant things. Don't be one of those 'I shrug off anything that is defensive of Bethesda I can't reasonably argue at', you're better than that, Styles.

He does have a background. He helped set up Rivet City some 40 years ago and has been a research scientist ever since. So, because Bethesda created a fictitious character, with a fictitious background, in a fictitious universe and didn't explain his entire life's history, he's just random?

I get the feeling you just don't like Bethesda very much and regardless of what they do you will find a reason not to like it.

They have made 1 Fallout so far. I hardly think that's a good reason to cast so much doubt.

Well the problem is that Ghouls seemingly go Feral at almost any time and over time so , Unlike regular humans who simply go feeble and senile in there old age ferals simply go Psyco and Olympic athlete in there old age.