You choose your own reality. It's not an argument, that's the truth. You folks are arguing for some fundemental game changes that are likely too big for spot patching, maybe they'll listen and do some serious overhaul, but I'm not holding my breath for it. So you can either continue to whine and wait, or deal with it on your own as best you can. That does include altering your game play. A suggestion is given once, whining occurrs again and again. A suggestion has no expectation along with it. Whiners believe they deserve their own way.

And by the way, I'm not saying you folks are wrong in your game design suggestions, it's just that your on the wrong end of the process to be affecting it in a serious way, not to mention the fact that it isn't your game to design. Also the truth of my statement still holds. You CAN choose to deal with it and play differently. Or you can choose not to play, whatever floats your boat.

(PS - A sandbox game isn't designed to be played in a specific way, one of the above posters is complaining about being a powerful illusionist... as opposed to having 1 kill uber enchanted/crafted weaponry. He thinks his case is different than that of those who made blacksmithing / enchanters. It isn't actually. It's exactly the same. He can choose to react to the game in any way he see's fit. Including waiting for the game to change. (Which there is no guarantee it will). Or he can find other ways to amuse himself within the game on his own.

*/sarcasm on*
PPS - Also remind yourself that we're arguing about what can be done with the settings for difficulty aren't making it difficult enough - then you'll understand the logic of my suggestion to limit yourself. I'm sure with a second or third read you'll understand it.) *sarcasm off/*

I haven't finished reading all the posts so this might have been said, but I just thought of something.

I think WOW (yes, I know) has it right.

Maybe they should make it where you have to cast higher level spells and use higher level equipment to gain levels as you level up a skill. Then make some of these spells and materials hard to get.

I admit I don't know too much about exploits as I don't use them, but someone mentioned that you can cast soul trap on a dead body and keep leveling. Make it where you need a higher level soul trap spell at higher profession levels.

It is realistic: If you practice free throws for 2 years straight you might have mastered how to stand still and shoot a basketball, but that doesn't mean you can do a lay-up.

At some point the easy spell shouldn't give you experience for ALL of that class. It can only teach you so much.

You're right.....this whole thread was not about how some ppl feel the game is easy due to powerleveling or anything of the sort.

My example of an exploit speciffically in the game might have not been legit, but the basis stands.

I for one know that some ppl who have complained are ones who do the exploiting.

Get over yourself.

A.) I want to play a game where I can be as powerful as I want.

B.) The pole clearly shows that the content is not perceived as broken by the "majority" of players.

C.) I've thought about it more than you and certainly don't appreciate the casual mockery.

Anyway, to get into the real discussion . . .

The aesthetic of this game focuses on the atmosphere of the world and the player's ability to mold and shape their experience in it. Many games would provide enjoyment purely from the development of a player's skill in playing the game, or focus on a mix of game atmosphere and skill building (or "challenge," if you prefer) to supply enjoyment to the players. Many games are very successful with these models; however, the introduction of a game where "challenge" is a supporting feature of atmosphere is not a ludicrous notion. Skyrim is not about combat, and to perceive the game merely as a vehicle for the combat is a fundamental misunderstanding of it. Combat is a feature that factors in heavily, but the "point," so to say, is to craft an interesting story for the character, thus in TES games leveling is not a system that defines playstyle like in most RPG's, but has consciously been designed to reflect playstyle. Thus, if you work at becoming a powerful smith, you will be a powerful smith. I am not arguing that combat shouldn't be enjoyable, but you must concede that only in the traditional gaming world is there an expectation that powerful people/characters should not come across as powerful when they use their skills. Most NPC's use iron or steel weapons, Ebony being reserved as an extremely rare and powerful material, and people are complaining that Deadric makes you too powerful. Conceptually you have forged a mythic weapon out of the heart of a demon--shouldn't you be fairly godly using that weapon? From a story perspective the power levels make complete sense.

The developers have a tough job balancing for these very reasons. A casual gamer needs to feel fairly powerful to access the aesthetic of the game, and thus the developers need to design it so that an unsmithed, unenchanted piece of armor or weapon makes you fairly powerful. If you have 100 smithing you should perceive yourself as being some sort of Hephaestus, creating legendary items with unrivaled power. To find a bandit that wields a similar weapon wouldn't make sense.

As a note, I do agree that another difficulty level wouldn't be a bad idea, but the discussion in place has spawned numerous suggestions that the abilities that do exist should be nerfed, which would violate the core aesthetic of this game in favor of one that places story and atmosphere into subordinate positions to combat.

except for the fact you must be in combat to level up conjuration..

I train with "exploits" and I know it but I am not going to complain because I know I used some "exploits".

Of course it isn't "our game to design." The whole point of the forums is an outlet for frustration, feedback, and commiseration within the community. Considering how often this subject pops up, and the fact that even those "against exploiting" by their very position acknowledge that there is a balance issue. I have yet to really see anyone that does not see how certain aspects of the game can be trivialized. It really isn't a "choice" I am given when my options are either 1.) Don't level up certain skills, take certain perks, or take up crafting and enjoy a fairly balanced game or 2.) Play like how I want to play and enjoy a not balanced game. I want to be able to progress and take certain perks and play the game how I see fit, the problem is the way I want to play the game means that the difficulty is nowhere near scaled correctly.

What I am asking for is not a very difficult task here. A slider or option to change how enemies scale so that I can raise their effective level. For some players, this means lowering the effective level of enemies so they are not put into a position of "not being able to kill anything" because they leveled up Lockpicking, Pickpocketing etc. and their combat skills and equipment are way out of balance.

This isn't whining. I am not on the forums constantly complaining. I replied to a topic to which I disagreed with the OP and explained how the issue can be resolved without impacting anyone's gameplay. The absolute ONLY claim can be made is that development time might be spent on this rather than something else. Do I think this is a priority? No, but I would rank this a lot higher than say new DLC.

I would so hate that. I like to be able to do everything. Right now i got a sneaky thief-assassin-mage-warrior-ranger shouting Bosmer.

EDIT: The one above me does makes sence thou. If it to easy, give them atleast a levelscaling slider. Or Extra master difficultie

This. I do sort-of wish that gear had level requirements at least associated with the tiers of gear. I am not big on being limited to what I can do in games, but I feel that there is just way too much existing in the game currently that makes the game too easy with respect to Perks and Equipment. Saying that players should practice some form of self-restraint to do this is silly. If I find a Forsworn Bow and it is better than my current one, I will use it. I am not going to say "Oh welp, better wait 10 levels to use this!" Within a very short amount of time, I was upgrading gear so fast I barely got a chance to use it. This makes equipment feel less that special. The only thing I end up caring about then is "the best item" since my experience with lower tiers are so short lived. I see that as a design problem.

I always go with the ones i think looks the best. As I would in real life if I would buy, for example, a bow.

No :thumbsup:

Which is why Appearance Slots were one of the most genius ideas ever introduced. If you are unfamiliar with this idea, it means you can equip whatever item you want (say a Daedric Bow) and if you hate how it looks, or want to Roleplay with a Longbow, you could put the Longbow in the appearance slot. This means you could effectively make your Daedric Bow appear as a Longbow without having to mod the game at all for that ONE specific item. To me, this fits inline with TES considering in Daggerfall how many slot options you had to customize as well as the ability to wear cloaks and clothing in accordance with armor. For gameplay sake, the homogenization of gear to the limited slots Skyrim has is agreeable, however it cuts down on the amount of visual customization you can do A LOT. I would like to see appearance slots be introduced along with a Non-Perked ability to Tailor clothing and items to fill those appearance slots.

The no-side has already lost:



People who abuse exploits

abuse exploits

exploits

...

Smithing is officially an exploit.

Yes, there's so many exploitable skills it's hard for it to not affect the game's fun factor. I can't even use alchemy because of how broken and stupid it is.

It's a single player game. I could not begin to care what one person does in their game. It doesn't affect mine at all. Me personally, I exercise self-control and don't do much but play the game I have. I will add mods, eventually, but generally I add mods for cosmetic stuff and to add more challenges, not remove them. :shrug: But... to each his own, in a single player game.

And this is a forum, people come here to talk about all sorts of things. If you think their topic is annoying or foolish, just skip it.

Problem solved.

In a way I like that crafting is overpowered because you can use them to make even the most inane hybrid builds work. It's just about moderation. Decide how you want to play then decide exactly how much power you need to make it work.

I personally hate being a mage because of the magicka issues so will likely use enchanting to severely reduce the cost of destruction and restoration spells when I make one.

I cant belive this thread hasnt goten locked yet.

MY opinion? I dont care what other people do. There buisness. Ive made it into the 40s without cheating though.(I dont count smithing as cheating, I smith for real, not just iron daggers :rolleyes: )

I take them more seriously than the people who say balance does not matter at all in a single player game.

But my guideline on this topic is simple. How many hoops did they have to jump through to get to overpowered? If it is pretty much 0 hoops or out of the box skills/spells there is a problem that should be addressed(stealth, illusion, conjuration seem to be examples of this or at least on the border). If there is a lot of hoop jumping, I don't give a crap. I see the crafting loop of doom as a lot of hoop jumping in that you had to go way out of your way for that one to happen. Things in the in between zone are okay to be overpowered but they should not be as over powered as the things that take a lot of hoop jumping.

I disagree. They end up as powerful as they should be. The problem that you have is that XP is gained in these skills too easily. It needs to be XP gained on the $ value of items smithed and the soul gems used for enchanting, IMO. Having said that though, on my playthrough, using both normally, I hit 100 smithing at mid 30s level, and enchanting mid 40s. Just improving items with spare materials to sell for extra septims, or enchanting items to make them better. No grinding.

To everyone, if you are going to grind out skills in order to improve them, then complain that they're improved as a result of this, then you're either deranged or a simpleton. Expect my responses to you to be reflective of that.

No. This is terribly imprecise, and cuts to the heart of the matter at hand.

Using those skills can make you overpowered, but the simple solution is to seek out a balance with the damage you do and the armour that you wear vs your enemies. I find it gives a more rewarding game, and takes little effort. On master, don't use smithing to upgrade your weps and armour. That's a challenge, even with full daedric kit. No need to dual enchant everything you own either.

Are you self-gimping? In a word, yes, but do you want results, or do you want to complain vociferously? I've always preferred results, myself, and have little time for those who won't help themselves.

Increase the challange?! Do you know what happens if you level non-combat skills such as smithing early in the game instead of combat skills? If you're around level 30 and your combat skills are below 50 you can die from a sneeze of some enemies you meet. I leveled smithing because it made sense for my char (I intended to roleplay a crafting profession) and it's really tough sometimes. If Bethesda "fixed" the game the way you think they should, it might get unplayable for a lot of people because of their playstyle. They should probably modify how difficulty levels work.

I would even go further with that. After reaching a certain level of skill, you shouldn't be able to raise it with low level crafting (e.g. if you can craft advanced armor, you can't raise smithing by craftiong iron stuff etc.). This works perfectly in World of Warcraft for years.

I don't hate this idea, but I'm looking at how the game mechanics work, and in reality, I feel that smithing levelling based on $ value is more than sufficient. In order to level alchemy up by creating low level potions takes a LOT of created potions. In the order of 50 or 60 each level. I would have it based on a sliding scale according to your smithing level, so say from lvl 20-21, might take 20 iron daggers, but from 99-100 might take 150 iron daggers. If someone is deliberately sitting there creating 150 iron daggers to up smithing one level and then complaining, well, que sera sera.

These topics honestly frustrate me. My first CRPG was the Bard's Tale (yep, RPG'ing since before most of you grew your first curly hair), freshly mint in box, and it was amazing. Magical. For the first time in my life, I didn't have to rely on just the pictures in my head. But it was so limited, as were so many of its descendants. Games like TES give you freedom. True, almost unlimited freedom, and it is wonderful. Absolutely wonderful, and I look so forward to seeing CRPGs in another 25 years time (if I live that long LOL).

I think what truly pisses me off though is that, and this seems to be a disturbing trend in our society today, people WANT someone else to make choices for them. They don't want to sack up, step up to the plate, and say, well, my full daedric dual enchanted gear smithed to 200% legendary is making the game too easy, so I won't use them. They want someone else to make it so they CAN'T do that, and it browns me off. It really does. man up. Use what you have to make what you want.

This part is for all the complainers: If anyone truly desires a challange (and I've posted this on the forums before), don't use all those fancy maxed out weps and armour. Head out into Skyrim with vanilla steel plate, and a vanilla steel sword with maybe one dmg effect on it. On master. It WILL be a challenge. This, I guarantee. But if you are not prepared to at least have some small part in creating the gameplay that you profess so earnestly to want, don't expect me to be sympathetic in any way towards you.

True to that :foodndrink: Also, you should mark that you're talking about the original Bard's Tale, because youngsters might not even get that gramps (sorry, couldn't help it, you're playing cRPGs as long as I'm alive) :goodjob: