I don't understand this mentality.

Sure I purposely conjur a wolf sometimes too level conjurgation up, but I don't stand in the middle of nowhere for 30 mintues spamming a spell.

Thats not fun....who the hell does that? OR wants to do that?

If you complain about these things because you figured out or heard how to use the exploits and you're going out of your way (so to speak) to do them....then you complain about it, you have no one to blame but yourself.

It's like anything else......you can sit in a chair and starve yourself for 3 days, but you don't b/c you want to eat.

It's insane. If you're willing to spend 2 hours doing a boring thing over & over & over, then complain that the game is boring.... well... I see logic at work here.

If you roleplay the part of an overpowered smith and then complain that you achieved that.... lolwat?

Oh well. What else would we have to talk about?

Agreed.



How our knee injuries are acting up?

I voted "No", I don't think that people who purposefully game the system to min / max their character should be taken seriously when they then complain that the game isn't balanced or boring.

No.
But smithing is not an exploit nor is enchanting.

You do not gain levels by conjuring. You gain levels by conjuring in combat.

^ This.

On all accounts.

About as seriously as someone who claims you can sober up by drinking whiskey.

I don't even see why most people even care about these loopholes. I mean seriously, take the Oghma Infinium glitch for example... Someone would have actually had to think that through with the intent to exploit. While I can understand some to be found by mistake (Einarth, Faendal exploits) you'd still have to go out of your way to get any real gain.

Nah. It's more fun when you bring injury to prejudice.

these people find potential problems which can be looked into by devs in future endeavours so in a sense they are being helpful in a way, should they be taken seriously well i'll be honest I couldnt care less if they are bored, as long as im enjoying the game thats all that matters and hey im lovin it!!
It is down to each individual wether they act on what these players find, nobody is forcing someone to stand still for 30 mins spamming spells, play how you want to play and dont worry about what others do

I'm not worried about how these other people play, but it's rather obnoxious when they play to game the system and min / max their character, and then come complain about it.

It'd be like me saying that the game is broken because I can't sneak up on people and perform assassinations as a heavy armored, 2 handed weapon wielding warrior.

They should just gate professions, there are several ways to do it but I would prefer that you had to pick between alchemy/enchanting/smithing so you could only pick one of them (some rebalancing might be needed).

To be honest it's like playing doom on hell with god mode on and then complain that hell mode is to easy.

If you exploit a bug for your own gain, you loose all right to complain about said bug.

The moment restrictions start getting placed on what you can and cannot do as a character, is the moment that Elder Scrolls ceases to be what makes it great, and makes it any other generic RPG.

Or casting Soul Trap on a dead body (just saying...)


@OP: I voted no but I still think that maybe a few of these things shouldn't be in the game or be modified. I finally got smithing to 100 (I'm level 64) by only making the best stuff for my level and not buying materials (yes I went from 90 to 100 making/upgrading Daedric daggers with ebony I mined/found, reading books and doing quests). I would have really liked to use and sell all the leather and iron I have stockpiled but I couldn't without maxing smithing. Similar story with Enchanting except it's not maxed yet because I don't have enough greater/grand soul gems so I can't use my petty, lesser, and common to make some money without power-leveling enchanting off dirt cheap enchants.

Obviously I've chosen to take control of the situation to keep the game fun for me but I wish I didn't have to actively try and keep it fun and challenging. Games are better when you don't have to think, plan, follow self-imposed rules, and generally force the game to remain fun. Some of the exploits are just so easy it's actually hard to avoid them.

Regarding spells, use Muffle in the way it's intended. I cast and maintain Muffle along with my best armor spell when I'm in the wilderness or a dungeon. Illusion shoots up really, really fast. Or use Detect Life/Death frequently, as intended for checking what's around you/a corner and coming up ahead, or to find that growling bear, and Alteration shoots up.

Oh, good, someone else who thinks a good solution is not to NOT abuse game mechanics but rather to cut content/nerf the game. :rolleyes:

No, Hell no. People who min-max their characters, merchant hop, buy only the very best combat-related perks and abuse tri-crafting as much as possible are absolute [censored] for then coming onto the forum to complain.

I readily admit that some of these systems are imbalanced, but abusing them all as much as possible and then whining is just [censored] unbelievable.

Yes, good. I feel the same way he does. I certainly have the willpower to resist abusing game mechanics, and I don't abuse them, but at the same time I want the game to regulate itself. I don't want to constantly worry about how many enchanted iron daggers will ruin my fun by allowing me access to too much money, or how much merchant-hopping is okay, or just how much I'll be able to smith and enchant my gear before the game loses its challenge. There are many things that I, as the player, like being able to control, but I don't want to be forced to mindfully avoid built-in easy exploits and loopholes.

I know every current console command, so I can give myself infinite anything, go anywhere, do anything at will. The built-in loopholes are ambiguous gray areas, though.

Agreed. If you don't play the game as it was intended, then you lose the right to complain abut the game.

"But the game allows me to" is not an excuse. It's like avoiding the main quest completely and the complaining that there's no story. Sure you can, the game doesn't force you to do the main quest, but it's obviously not how the game is meant to be played.

Wikipedia quote:


Ok first about what the OP mentions about conjuration, is indeed an exploit because if you are in combat the enemy is supposed to be able to hit you, except if you exploit something to stay safe and just keep summoning. About crafting skills though - they are cannot be considered an exploit and when people are complaining about them tbh i believe they are every right to.


These skills should have been "balanced" in the first place. And don't tell me this is not an mmo - i'm not talking about mmo balance.
People should have to put some effort to level a skill and then get rewarded depending their effort. That's the purpose and "joy" of having skills in an rpg game.
It's simply an effort-reward matter that we can't have with the current system. Even if you don't "min-max" it's too bloody easy. And having 100 self-imposed restrictions to pretend that you can't raise it as the game allows you to, does not help immersion and is downright annoying.

You have to look where this is coming from. The Elder Scrolls series is one of the very few 'true' RPG's around these days, as in, it's an actual ROLE playing game. Most of the games advertised as such are really hack 'n slash: Diablo and Wow spring to mind here. In a hack 'n slash, the real purpose is exactly to min-max your character so as to be as efficient a monster-killing machine as possible. The story, or 'role playing' for that matter, take a back seat to this.

Many of the people who complain about the game being to easy, or boring, are exactly the kind of people who mistook Skyrim for a hack 'n slash - a misunderstanding that is excusable, I should think, if you're new to the series, and if you've played Diablo, Wow or consorts - you'd almost think those are the very definition of RPG.

Truth be told, however, some of them do have a point. Apart from actually role-playing, which would solve many of the aforementioned issues, there are some things which in fact, are broken or could have been improved (hooray for mods!). Roleplaying doesn't solve everything.

I do think everyone has a right to their opinions, however, even if you don't agree with them (for whatever reasons).

Do I care about it being possible to grind skills? Not at all.
Do I care about it being possible to become overpowered? Only in the sense that I think it should be harder.
Do I think Destruction should be overhauled so it becomes an actuall end-game skill? Indeed I do.

Sorry, but Skyrim is also mostly whackamole. It is even streamlined and has reduce the actual potential of a real RPG.

Some of the people, not all.
The ones who play hack and slash or mmorpg games are not the only ones who enjoy character/skill development you know. The ones who don't enjoy it though, are definitely not rpg gamers.
I, as an rper and a gamer, enjoy effort/reward and don't want to have 100 self-imposed restrictions and limitations on myself to enjoy effort/reward and still have some challenge! They ruin my immersion and my rp and still are not enough to make these skills feel that they are working in the right way. Would it be so hard for them to scale skill progress depending on quantity and quality of materials?
So that i actually have to work for them?