Well it was nice and sweet, the problem is, which is sort of good though, is you have the "WTF?! What do I do now? Where do I go?" feeling. I guess having your hand held all the time back in those days, you were expected to be told where to go. Now if we had the Oblivion tuturial for Morrowind, that would have been perfect then.

I support either making it optional or shorter. In my opinion, exploration in Bethesda games is their biggest strength, and sticking the player in a linear segment at the beginning doesn't exactly show this off.

depends... If it's needed to start off the main storyline, then sure. But if it's gonna be something like oblivion, then please no, it was annoying and it wasn't even fun the first time around

Yes but you should be able to skip it by saying something in the conversations or something similar

Morrowind/Fallout: New Vegas Length

No, just put it all in the manual and woe to those who do not read it.

I know, right!? What an epic intro that would be.

As long as the tutorial doesn't teach me to svck eggs and is worth while then yeah, keep it. An hour long tutorial isn't too bad when you get 200 hours game to follow.
Remember some people would never had played an ES game before like me when I played oblivion. The tutorial was worth while but there needed to be a bit more on the levelling system, which I only got the hang of after 20 or so hours in on my first game.

Most computer savvy people don't really use tutorials when they start out (unless they're operating a thousand dollar per hour machine); I'm pretty sure the same goes for most gamers. Post people will just end up clicking different combinations of button until they figure out what does what. :shrug:

If there has to be a tutorial, I'd rather it be short...if you feel like you have to start the game with a strong narrative, then make it skippable (or extremely epic)

Herp-d-derp

No one said it was hard, we said it got old. Boring.

For those of us who use mods, the sewer exit save isn't an option, because many mods require a new game. A saved sewer exit, unfortunately, is not a new game. Alternate start mods are a crapshoot at best, even the best of them are iffy.

So say whatever you want as many times as you want, as irately as you want, that doesn't change the fact that many of us find the tutorial dungeon to be tedious at best after the first few times, and would like the option to skip it if we so chose.

But hey, let me let you get back to being all indignant about how other people play single player sandbox games.

Redefined. Both MW and OB are great, but the FO3 one is simply amazing, best one I've ever seen. I will always play these, even if I've done them before. The dungeon crawling aspect of OB was a tad long, but not intolerable. Even if I know they are reasonably safe, I still pretend they are dangerous - can't explain it really Should they be skippable? Probably. But let it pay out to actually do them.

This.

If we need to have something though, I'd like to settle for a Morrowind style chargen.

Why is the obvious so not obvious? I had always wondered why there was the option to change your character at the end of the sewers - likely so the testers didn't have to redo it over and over again.

yes. remember that wow moment you probably had when you stepped out of the dungeon or vault 101? that wasnt in new vegas because there was no long tutorial.

they should try to make it interesting though. they were both kinda boring

Yes. When you get bored of doing it just do a save at the end like you could at the end of Oblivion's tutorial and then avoid it after that. A game as complex as TES series are need a tutorial for new players. Not everyone that is going to buy this game will have played Oblivion or Morrowind. Bethesda will probably figure out a way to get the new players up to speed so they don't get frustrated and quit playing. And, no matter what the people on this forum will think, Skyrim is going to be made to get new players, not make the Morrowind [censored] happy.

It's not much of a tutorial as it is telling you part of the story. Heres what im seeing some people want if they say no to a long "tutorial" or an "intro" as i call it.

1. No long beginning.
2. Less training and use of controls. (can make players forget how to use control instead of sitting there playing and learning the controls as they play for an hour)
3. Throwing players out saying "Ok, the emperors dead and his an amulet that you need to take to Jaufre. Good luck even though we told you nothing about this whole death and amulet"

It needs to stay long. I found in Morrowind i almost quit because it gave no tutorial on how to use control or tell me the story of why im here. This is my opinion though

I think the tutorial is fine as is, but it should be optional in a sense.

What I mean is, it should be unobtrusive when it gives you the option. Like when the guards tell you not to follow them through the door in Oblivion. You can either do the tutorial by going the regular route, or skip it all by just following them. (Such as grab the lockpicks and open the door, or even have that key that opens the door to the tutorial also open the door to follow the guards) Possibly include some boxes that contain some of the basic equipment on the other side. That way, you could take the long tutorial the first time, then let the player know after how to skip it for later playthroughs.

It's fine the way it is, and I like how they give you the option to save the file before continuing.

If you don't want to go through the tutorial again, just reload that point to just before you leave the sewers/vault and you're fine.

and, IIRC, you could also revamp your character in New Vegas as well, if you got to a certain point far away from Goodsprings.

*cough* digital distribution *cough*

A tutorial is a must and Oblivion did well with it, although I would like the option to skip it after having played it many times. The Oblivion prologue was a great introduction into the main storyline and drew me into the game unlike Morrowind. I guess the debate is really over how long it should be..long enough to show the basics of combat and movement and anything else important. I don't want to spend 10 minutes fumbling around trying to figure out how to do something because it wasn't covered in a tutorial.

Yes, I think Oblivion did it excellently, but it needs to be optional, the problem wasn't the tutorial itself, it was that you couldn't skip it.

Make it optional, like the player (the character) has amnesia or has is new to to the land of Skyrim and a helpful guide at the first area asks if you want his/her help.

I voted "no". Don't get me wrong, I want a brief tutorial, but Morrowind style. Short and sweet. I felt Oblivion pinned you into the Main Quest too much to start with (admittedly due to the writing). Long tutorials tend to set a fairly linear tone. In Morrowind it was literally "here's how the game works, go!". It gave a good first impression of freedom, and instantly had the player thinking "what do I want to do?".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Morrowind cultist or anything. I've always found long tutorials in any game very detracting.

Keep it fun and memorable, ala Oblivion. Give the player the ability to reroll their character at the exit of the tutorial zone. just save before the end and you can reroll new characters every 5 minutes.

In fallout 3 it actually created a save for you right before you exit the vault. But yes, I did that in Oblivion the first time I completed it. I've only re-played the tutorial once after that just cause I wanted too.
As long as they keep the "change everything after the tutorial is over option" I don't care how long it is. Because I'll just save before that part. I actually wish more games had that. Nothing is worse than spending two hours creating a character only to see them from a certain angle and realize you [censored] something up.