Because the people who are judging it before playing it won't be satisfied until someone validates their complaints.

Like someone already mentioned, there's is no need to be able to save anywhere or for a toggle. People who really want to can always save via the console command.

And you can have it so that you can have a death penalty while still allowing saves to deal with getting stuck. Many people want a death penalty but not if it is implemented as restricting save points, instead of restricting reload points. This poll does not address that option.

Toggling features of survival on/off is independent concern that applies to all the features - and is better addressed with .ini editing and mods.

???

they should just follow what they said and go all in survival and casual just have to download mod for make it ez personal opignion no on/off thing you play the hard way or you dont darksoul style ( and hardcoe should be LOCK no difficulty change) you chose it live with it .

very easy/easy/normal/hard/very hard/survival // Survival hardcoe beaware if you chose that option no comming back something like that

@drake-heart12

My response was to your statement about it being about you as a player. An RPG should not be about the player, as it's meant to be the role of the character. Not to mention the fact that it's more of a shooter than an RPG is a fairly significant complaint among people.

@yarnevk

No. Actually you are misconstruing my statement altogether. I stated that beds are present everywhere in the game, which you'd be hard pressed not to find a bed after five minutes of walking. I also stated that if one does not wish to actually locate a bed (which sleeping provides those debuffs anyways) then one should have a bed roll readily available that functions exactly as a bed except for the buffs that it gives (which Bethesda has already stated will probably happen).

Again. You are putting in words that I did not say.

@Ballowers100

Since you're someone that I have noticed is advocating for the sleep-to-save and for the game to resemble an RPG, I am going to assume you misinterpreted what I wrote. I am also advocating for the same thing, but the statement you're responding to is mentioned above in the response to drake-heart12.

Not to mention that PS4 and Xbox One have resume play feature where if you do need to turn off the console you can just resume where you left off anyways without the need to save.

There is nothing complicated about it.

Restricted saving:

You must find a bed to save your game, on your death that is the only available save and there is no other way to save.

Restricted reloading:

You must find a bed to make a save point that can be reloaded on death. All other forms of save are available, but cannot be used as death reloads.

This latter option is not in this poll, despite being the method used in roguelike dungeon crawlers for decades, yet roguelikes are the niche genre for hardcoe play. There is nothing hardcoe about no saves, all that shows is your game is not buggy and you have lots of free time.

So either the game just reloads back to the bedsave on death (where the player can just hop back to the title screen and manually load the quicksave), or the quicksave is deleted on use (in which case expect people to back up that save regularly). Seems a bit of a moot point by and large.


The dedicated, the ones who take personal pride in restricting themselves this way would do so even if the option to reload quicksaves remains.


Others don't care about personal pride, will reach the end of the story in Survival using very scummy tactics just to look 'elite' on message boards, fully realising nobody can actually prove they backed up the autosaves over and over. Those sort of people would proactively try to get these limitations put in place in order to make completing the mode harder (making them seem more 'elite') and to ensure the number of people successfully reaching the end is as low as possible.


Unfortunately it means such online claims will be responded with skeptacism. Even people who didn't back up their saves would be accused of doing so - so really, this mode should be all about personal satisfaction above all else. So really, quicksaves should be toggleable to reduce the temptation of using them but no more than that is really needed otherwise the mode's just promoting online elitism of the sort we regularly see on any Bloodborne or Dark Souls message board.

I voted for toggle. I am all for options.

Thing is tho, that sleep-save isn't really needed. Why make a feature out of it, when people could just limit themselves to only save right before / after they have slept? Same goes for fast travel btw.

Kind of I've had a couple of back and forths with those up for discussing what the mode should feature but there is a minority that are insistent on either derailing the discussion or belittling those that are against as we are are not hardcoe enough

Anyway

No to no quicksave

No to no fastravel

http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/09/10/20/1-Citizen-Smith-Alamy.jpg

Absolutely!

It just means that it's actually a hot issue for many.

I'm just kind of excited that it's drawn this much attention. Who knew that a significant number of people really wanted to see the game go in that direction?

Its sort of amusing that the pro camp for this tends to be the most caustic bunch. Do you really believe folks care about bragging about this mode on forums? Or that others actually care? Good lord man, some folks are just against it because its a bad idea.

Excuse the brutal editing, that is exactly what I mean.

Keeping quicksave for me has nothing to do with bragging rights, but everything to do with keeping the game convenient and fun to play.

I'm happy to receive a penalty for death, but not because the game crashed, the mission given is bugged or my dog (the real one) just did a poo in the lounge and I need to stop and clean it up

No to no quicksave

No to no fast travel

You need to cite the Bethesda source if you are saying they are adding a bedroll that functions as a quicksave bed without debuffs . My point is if they did that then they would have to implement restricted reloads because if you can plop down a sleeping bag there is no death penalty. That makes the mode no different than now where you can reload a quicksave after death - so why would they go to that effort of a portable bag when it is the same result as a quicksave?

I challenge you to find a bed in the glowing sea, or in the reunions quest that allows you to save within five minutes. Even if you could find a bed, you cannot use it until the area is cleared and that will take you more than five minutes. The statement that there are beds every few minutes is hyperbole.

For me, it's not about being hardcoe or bragging rights. I want to see all of the changes we heard about last week unfold exactly as Beth intends. The info of Survival Mode that came out last week finally made FO4 seem like the game I've been wanting from the beginning. I don't want that reduced in anyway by complaints that are unfounded on any actual game-play of the mode in question. As a console guy, I've had to accept the limitations on HUD customization. I have a choice to enjoy the game as it's presented or not.

Or they could use a filter that only presents bedsaves for death reloads, even on the main screen. The game already filters your saves based on the last character you played, they can certainly only present saves valid for death reloads, they have the technology to do it right.

Of course there are people that are going to cheat with OS/mod workarounds so they can still brag about their steam acheivements even though they did not actually accomplish them fairly but you do not design the game for them. Even the restricted save system will be cheated that way.

Look at Bloodborne... despite any qualities it may or may not have, it's difficulty has caused a strange phenomenon where people continually praise it and call it 'easy' just to lord over and insult others who merely disliking it because that apparently must mean they're 'filthy casuals' or other nonsense and it's vile behaviour.


Have the option able to be toggled and you get everyone just playing for their own satisfaction. If there's no toggle and too many restrictions and things like permadeath, we're pretty much inviting Fallout 4 to become the next thing every 'elitist' uses to belittle other groups of players. Imagine a scenario where any time someone says they dislike Survival, some idiot jumps in and says 'git gud scrub'. Imagine a situation where we can't even discuss non-Survival without someone making a dig about still having the training wheels on or not playing the game properly.


Why turn Fallout into that? Just give us a toggle and we can make our own minds up without the game suddenly attracting the wrong crowd.

I'm guessing they have a save on waiting when it ships to pander as per. No toggle.

Only if you:

1) know about console command saving (I'm an avid fan and mod the crap out of my games and I didn't know about this one)

2) are on the PC version. It seems like the numbers are huge enough on both sides of console/PC for Fallout 4 that, while not a perfect 50/50 split, Bethesda ignoring either side would be a very foolish move.

3) are confident using the console command. I do know a few folks who are afraid to use the CC. I think for them it's a fear that they're poking around in the engine and will accidentally ruin their game.

Complicated in how it's presented. I had some problems following that poll, though the way you lay it out here makes it much clearer. Restricted saving in this regard is really just part of the argument on restricted reloading. So it could go into that argument or be unmentioned.

So for example:

"Would you be in favor of a system where, you could only reload a save based on your character's death?"

I may be saying that wrong, but I'm doing it in a single, simplified sentence. And I've turned it into a very clean, yes/no answer. That's all I meant.

I'm a bit confused on the concept though. So in the restricted reloading system you save at a bed, that's the only save. You can load that save at any time. But when your character dies, what changes? You would still just be loading that bed-save from before. In Fallout 4, when you die the game just ends and sends you back to the Main Menu. How is death penalized in that system?

The concept reminds me of how Dying Light has it setup. The game never really saves unless you quit. Instead, when you die, your character is re-spawned at a nearby bed and looses around 2000xp as a penalty. So it's not really autosaving in that game, instead the game doesn't end when you die, it just re-spawns your character.

Voted yes. Customization is king. Anybody that demands I play their way can get bent

So Bethesda can get bent?Very smart.

What if it's Todd Howard wanting it like this? I hope he does want it like this, without any togglable options.

Considering they haven't released it yet I would have thought it fairly obvious I was referring to those screaming against toggles. Suppose I should have made it even more painfully obvious.

myself , if I had a choice of toggle on/off of 2 survival mode changes -- sleep to save and fast travel--, I would prolly have -- sleep to save on and fast travel as is now ,, so as to be able to fast travel when needed . I like to be able to fast travel .

my reason for a fast travel is : if in a heavy duty fight and see armor is badly beat up , then I can fast travel back and repair then continue back to the map point I was at and continue my journey.

that way I don't have to worry about a repair or if i need to sleep to save or have a long walk to just repair . I certainly don't want to have to cart around what is needed to repair armor and spend time looking for the nearest red rocket or repair bay.. what a pain that would be ..

I can see having sleep as the save button in survival mode . but the rest as it is now .. heck I get going at times and then crash or a burp happens and the next I know , have no clue where I am because I have not saved in such a long time , I lost over 1 and half hours of playing and a bunch of new discoveries . nothing to do except lol bout it and start all over again ..

so sleep to save is no biggy .

so toggle on/off is a good option for me for those 2

to add edit , disease , eat and such really don't matter to me , long as I don't get a std all is good

Using mods is an intended feature to customize your experience. If a player chooses to create his own difficulty mode and pick and choose the features he wants in his copy of the single player game he payed for, that's his prerogative and nobody is being cheated.

Bragging about video game 'achievements'? I would be convinced that you had stumbled upon the original inspiration for the wedgie and the swirley if they didn't predate the computer age.