I am sure Bethesda thought of that, but the line of whether we are in battle and not in battle is very blur in this game.


I can stay hidden right behind 4 super mutants, but the game will still consider me out of battle.


So the bed is available in just about every place + we can bring our own sleeping bag.


I don`t know what`s even there is to argue anymore lol because it seems people`s major concern is "I am too busy to find save point when I need to quit game".

Use the sleeping bag. Problem solved.

Some people want it though to role play sleeping, when fatigued though or not having enough sleep.

Frankly, I don't understand any of the above objections. If a player doesn't like the aspects of the new survival mode, then why not just play on very hard level? There neither shame nor harm in that. You just play one level back. So what's the big deal?

It's not just one level back. It's a whole new game mode that comes with significant changes. Some people would like to experience all of the new game mechanics of survival minus the sleep to save mechanic.


Although, some of those mechanics wouldn't work very well if the sleep to save one wasn't there, like the agro.

I've said in another thread that I'm all for option toggles. Hopefully, Bethesda can do that. If they do, problem solved, I suppose. But if they don't, then the player still has the choice of either taking on all the new limitations or playing on very hard. Sounds as though a lot of this boils down to the ability to toggle.

As for your last statement, I'm not sure what you mean regarding agro. Would you elaborate?

You can't trip over a nuka cola in this game without falling into a bed.

Show me a location, and I'll show you a place to sleep.

Like I said in the previous thread, I want this to be -optional-. I don't want them to remove it. I want to have the choice to use it or not. Some people have barely experienced any issues with the game and are fine with it. I've had over a dozen CTDs and I've experienced a handful of bugged quests that wouldn't complete, and required reloading an earlier save. I frequently experience an issue with my Pip-boy and my weapons not appearing. The only way I can fix this is by saving and reloading. This is a frequent issue that happens to me at least once every couple of days.

I've been playing this game on Survival almost since it launched. I honestly can't even remember the last time my character died. It's been quite a while. I love the game, but the combat isn't particularly challenging. I want this to be optional. I'm not scared or worried about dying. That happens infrequently enough that there's zero concern about it for me as far as the sleep/saves are concerned. My issue is that I don't want to lose an hour of progress because I haven't slept and my game crashed or bugged out. That is literally the ONLY reason that I want this to be optional. Let me repeat that.


The ONLY reason that I want this to be optional, is because I do not want to lose a ton of game progress because of a crash.

In other threads people have seemed to misunderstand or ignore this point, so I'm going to repeat it once more.

The ONLY...again, ONLY reason that I want this to be optional, is that I do not want to lose a ton of game progress because of a crash or a bug.

I'm not opposed to this idea in principle. On a more stable game, I'd have no issues with using it. I have no desire to have it in a Bethesda game. I'll install a mod to enable manual saves if that's what I need to do...as will MANY other people. It makes more sense for Bethesda to just make it optional, since the majority of people in multiple threads have now expressed that they either don't want it or want it to be optional. I really just do not understand why so many people are resisting the idea of making this optional. They want it to be their way or no way. Their advice is to just play on Very Hard instead. That's a ridiculous suggestion. I want 99% of the things in this Survival overhaul. I don't want the last 1%.

If I'm exploring and I finally find that Explosive Combat Shotgun or that Instigating Hunting Rifle, I don't want to lose it. If I get it and I die before I can get to a bed and save...that's my fault. I should have been more careful. If I get it, make it to a bed, and JUST before I go to sleep to save, my game crashes...it is not my fault. That is not immersion. It is buggy software.

Let me repeat it one more time in an attempt to stave off the many people who are missing the point -

My concern with this has nothing to do with worrying about dying. It has everything to do with CTDs and buggy software necessitating reloading old saves. Please, make it optional. Those who want to save only while sleeping can do so. Those who want to do manual saves can do so. Make it a check mark in the options that can't be changed after starting the game, or set it so that if you change it you can't change it back after the fact. This makes everyone happy. I really do not see why anyone could possibly oppose something like this. It's a single player role playing game. Let me play it the way that I want to play it.

Because I absolutely want 99% of the features in this. I don't want sleep/saves. Rolling back to Very Hard isn't really a reasonable solution here.

In the new Survival mode, you gain agro which allows you to deal more damage. It's increases over time, but every time you sleep it resets. So you may find yourself in a situation where you have to choose between the agro damage or sleeping to save your game.


However, I just realized this. If you were allowed to save any time you want, you have no reason to sleep. Which means one could keep that agro damage indefinitely if they didn't need to sleep to save. I'd image that just breaks the mechanic and ruins the high risk for high reward it offers to gameplay.

Making sleep save an Option/Toggle is just as same as not putting it in first place.


Why? Because one option has no advantage over the other one whatsoever.

Jeez.

Not really. They could still make sleep into something that is mandatory once per day. That wouldn't be hard at all to implement. If you lose your well rested status, your stats start dropping, your AP starts depleting, you start moving more slowly, and so on.

Yeah, I don't see how that's any issue at all. If I pick up some juicy item and it places me overweight, then I can either forfeit it, drop another item (or items) or walk back to my nearest storage point. That's all about choices. By the same token, I can sleep (for whatever reason) and lose an adrenaline bonus, or I can remain awake and keep the adrenaline bonus- and gain fatigue and run the accompanying risk of being killed before I can save the game. More choices. This entire game is built around the concept of risk and gain, and it's up to the player to do the balancing. The clear solution is for the player to decide wisely and accept the consequences.

agro/fatigue is indeed the counter balancing feature that ties to sleeping but it should have nothing to do with when you can save, because a save should be archiving the game state which includes how much agro/fatigue/sleep you have had. The game should not require you to sleep and give up aggro or become fatigued from napping in a raiders bag because you need to eat dinner and feed the dog or change a diaper or afraid of buggy mods/quests forcing a time wasting replay.

This is very easily fixed by implementing the feature as 'rollback to sleep save upon death' so that you can still quicksave and pick up where you left off as long as you did not continue to play and die. Nobody who is for the feature should be against accommodating that change as it only enables those who want to have the sleep save death penalty but cannot if it requires saves only in bed.

True, I wasn't considering that. Also, I don't know why I am calling it agro when it's adrenaline. Playing too much Killing Floor.

The balanced is between adrenaline buff and fatigue nerf. Fatigue will force sleep independent of saving the game. It has also been noted that a single hour sleep session (just to save) will NOT affect adrenaline.

I'd be fine with that. If saves roll back to your last sleep save upon death, I don't see how this fundamentally changes anything at all. Life happens. I'm a college student, and sometimes I'll get an hour of gaming in between classes. When it's time to go to class though...it's time to go to class. I can't always wait 5 more minutes to walk to a bed and save. Yes, I could preemptively counter this by stopping my exploration sooner and going to a bed, but this is limiting my enjoyment of the game. I'm not losing immersion by being able to save the state of a video game. They aren't real life. I can pick it up and put it down at my own leisure. Exploring and not dying, then saving the game, and picking up at the same point where I was exploring and not dying previously isn't breaking my immersion in even the slightest sense.

And to clarify, sleeping only affects your adrenaline bonus if you sleep for more than 1 hour. Sleeping for an hour to save the game doesn't change your adrenaline level.

I was wondering about that...lol

On the PC they do. Hit ~ then type in TGM and hit enter. Enjoy it that's what you wanted.

I could get behind the bedroll idea. It would solve most of my play related issues. I was annoyed with not being able to pass time outside of a chair or bed when Fallout 4 first came out, but it hasn't ruined the game for me yet. So I don't think a bedroll would ruin it either. But it wouldn't solve any of my bug, glitch, CTD concerns about bed-saving.

My thoughts exactly.

Fallout 4 isn't an obsessively locked game though. It's not designed to keep any playthroughs "pure" in any way. You can do with it what you want. You can adjust difficulty how you want. You can turn off autosave if you don't like it. The point of Fallout 4 seems to be to let the player customize his or her game to a certain extent. Modding goes a HUGE step beyond that, and it's something the game actively supports.

There's no advantage to be gained whatsoever with any of this. There's no one to beat, no one to play against. It's just you and the game. You don't want to save, don't save. If sleep saving was toggle-able then it's up to you to leave it on if you want that. You can start a hard game, get frustrated and switch the difficulty to normal. You should get to play the version you want and so should I. We're both right when it comes to this issue.

Your in luck then, there will be bedrolls in the Survival Mode according to some people.

Read nu_clear_day's comments as well.

So i hear in a youtube video that we going to get a bedroll. That mean the whole "saving on sleep" become irrelevant if u can just put down a bed anywhere.

Theknightgaunt,

it`s not same


turning on/off autosave feature while sleep vs turning on/off only sleep can save feature.



First one is obviously for user preference.

Second one is more deeply related to gameplay in limited mode.



To be honest, I am fine whatever happens to save feature in survival mode.


I am just happy Bethesda is bringing this to us, and I will support the decision they make since it is clear they have very good idea what they need to do.



So, I am done talking about this save feature thing, and I will let people decide, complain and play on their own.

I think there should be a toggle option for stuff like this.


Stuff like saving isn't a game changer, unless game crashes, bugs, glitches are part of the survival mode.


Fast Travel too. It's not like we can teleport anytime and anywhere we want.

I think that the save on sleep mechanic should be optional. Generally when I used mods on Skyrim I was able to toggle a bunch of different aspects through the mod menu in-game which was hugely appreciated.

Moving on with the toggle in mind.. The mechanic itself seems to be tied in with several other features in survival mode: Sleeping creates saves, lowers our adrenaline level (which is responsible for increased damage) and affects our fatigue as well.

I think that as long as we can use any bed in any area so long as it's cleared then it wouldn't be as big of a problem since you can take a few steps in any direction and find another dungeon like in Skyrim.

The problem lies with people who don't have much time to play the games to begin with. Combined with the lack of fast travel it becomes tedious in the beginning of the game.

I really don't get what they're basing this on. The comment says that sleeping bags won't heal you as much as nicer beds do. The sleeping bag is already an item in the game that you can build at settlements and find randomly all over the map. I didn't see anything to suggest that it was going to be an item that you can carry. I think this would be great, and I'd love to see it. But as far as I can tell there isn't a single piece of evidence out there to suggest that this is going to be the case at this point. If you've seen something that I haven't, I'd love to see it. But saying that sleeping bags aren't going to result in being as well rested as using a nicer bed doesn't seem to imply anything along these lines.

I think it's less about saving and more about the fast travel. I like the difficulty of going into a dungeon or a house with the potential of dying, but I don't want to do that then run back to a settlement to save. If we had fast travel, we could at least travel to any settlement, save then go on to a dungeon. I would only want to play surivial of it had either fast travel or anytime saves. It's counter active to disable both as it becomes more of a time investment everytime we start a game.

I'm on my phone and can't post links. In the other Survival Mode thread it has a link to someone on Reddit who found a breakdown of the features of the mode (as it stands of course.)


One of the things mentioned is a sleeping bag item that you carry with you to save with, but doesn't give you any rest benefits.

So, what's the point of removing save anywhere future if they still have save anywhere feature?