Well we hit the post limit on the last thread, but it looked like we were really going to some interesting places with the discussion. So let's keep it going.

Here's the original thread: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1592986-should-survival-mode-only-allow-saving-when-you-sleep/page-1

The previous result of the poll was: 101 not in favor of bed-saving, and 83 in favor.

Both very high numbers.

For now, I'll support it. My game is stable enough that I don't have to worry about that personally, and it all but eliminates save scumming in situations like speech checks, pickpocketing, and so on. It also means landmines, Super Mutant Suiciders, and the occasional Raider with a Fat Man become so much more dangerous. I do think it should at least be expanded to all furniture items where we can wait, instead of just sleep, and I really think people need to try it before writing it off completely.

I know I have said more then my fair share of why I dislike disabling manual saves. But its really going to hurt the gaming experience when you have to re-do missions or scavenging in ruins, because your game crashed and froze.

People keep saying there are beds literally everywhere. But they seem to forget that this is a Bethesda game. There are bugs. There are definitely less bugs in Fallout 4 compared to the past games. But they still exist. And I personally seem to get more on the xbox one since the last patch. I get random crashes to the xbox dashboard every two days or so ( i generally play 2 to 3 hours a day). And it really svcks losing your progress. I don't want to re-play what I just did.

I love all the other changes the overhaul is talking about. I never fast travel anyways, so i like that I won't be tempted to again. But finding a bed every hour or so of gameplay, does not fit into a immersive roleplay experience. And I thought thats what Bethesda wanted to give their fans. No one asked for manual saves to be disabled. We asked for hardcoe mode. If this was a flawless game that never froze or crashed, there would be no issue.

I'll be playing this game mode regardless, but it will be frustrating to have to keep reloading a save due to game limitations.

Wow, I really look forward to roleplaying as a narcoleptic.

Yes, the people who asked for this this to get from Bethesda Game Studios deserve to get it.

Anyoe saying no is scared

It depends on what exactly is the goal of the survival mode. If it's supposed to be a difficult challenge mode- definitely a good idea. If it's built around the idea of realism and actual surviving, and not so much around actually difficulty, then not really.

My thoughts exactly.

I'm more on the fence about say fast travel limiting. If done right, then it could be a really interesting way to play the game. I think there'd still need to be ways to get across the map quickly, carts like Skyrim's, vertibirds, etc...

But the bed-saving only just worries me. I'd love to hear alternative ideas for it.

this is a BS response

I voted no for practical reasons.

1. I don't get to play as often as I would like. So having to find the right bed in order to save if I don't have time to continue? that's stupid.

2. I play on the PC. And ANYONE who has played a Bethesda game on the PC has learned one important rule. SAVE OFTEN. Glitches within the game causing CTD and other issues often times cause one to load older saves. Now imagine how frustrating that is going to be when you don't have these saves anymore?

3. Its going to force the player into approaching things differently. instead of "I'll do a quick save and then take on this Behemoth." it turns into either the player running away of going to find the nearest bed to save and then come back and hope the behemoth is still there. We all encounter things in the game that end up with us biting off more then we can chew.

The only way I see this working is constantly switching between difficulty settings. Want to fast travel? lower the difficulty. Want to save real quick? lower the difficulty.

4. what is the point of adrenaline if you save up a bunch for a tough fight and then are forced to save by sleeping before the tough fight?

I'd probably agree with saving - should be doable at any point - quick manual, auto . . . Same for fast travel, don't disable it, some people don't know how long they could play.

Gopher's new video hits exactly my thoughts on this subject ^^

It takes away the roleplaying from the game and makes you see the game as a game and not as a world you dived in...

100% yes.


I am also 100% sure Bethesda will keep this change.

Because they know better about FO4 than us, and they made decision based on how the game is made.

Hint: Beds are not hard to find, no matter where you are in FO4.

How does it take away the role playing from the video game?

Some people actually want this for role playing it gives them more of a chance to not use Fast Travel and saves.

I've voiced my opinions in the other thread as to why I am against it, but understand different folks and different strokes.


I would NOT oppose it if one of the two were features were implemented:


Toggles- I can opt in the survivor features I want and leave only save on sleep out, or


A craftable bedroll with a weight of 10 I can carry with me so that when something comes up life wise and I have to exit in a hurry I can lay it down where I am and save.

I want to toggle unlimited cap & ammo


Oh shoot! Why won`t Bethesda let me do it !

It makes you think about it as a video game... not as a roleplaying experience.

Saving isn't a thing a character in the Commonwealth would think about. When being in combat he would think things like "If the bullet hits me, I'm dead".

The change makes it so that your character is aware of the saving mechanic... he will have to put down his sleeping bag after a fight, just so that 'he' can save.

It's not a subconscious mechanic anymore, where you hit the 'quicksave' without actually realising that you did so and where you simply keep playing your character.

It becomes a major mechanic introduced to the world and the thoughts of your character, which totally ruins immersion and roleplaying for me.

It's not a big problem, as it will be moddable though <3

I'm totally happy with the Fast Travel choice

Fast traveling is a terrible mechanic and needs reworking... the carriages in Skyrim were a great option, that I'd like to see in a similar way being brought to Fallout.

You clearly don't read any of the post made at all then.

Well that's sort of the fun in it . You have to make that choice. Should you sleep and save to make sure you will be in good hands if you die at the cost of your agro? Or should you just go in without saving but with the agro? High risk for high reward. Well, that agro damage is the reward at least.


Anyway. I like a lot of the new features I've heard with Survival mode, especially the agro mechanic. Though I find myself torn on the save during sleep only. I have no issue with it in regards to the difficulty it adds to the game. There are games that take that sort of punishment to a whole new level that I play on a regular basis like the Souls games where these sort of mechanics are a regular thing, not a difficulty level.


But I'm in the same boat that this mechanic could be an annoyance in what is still quite a buggy game. The most stable Bethesda game? Yes. But that doesn't say much because it's still a Bethesda game. There were a good number of times a bug had forced me to reload a previous save to fix it and of course the chances of the game crashing. Apparently there is a sleeping bag or something you can just carry around and save whenever to make up for the lack of saving (though at the cost of agro and security no doubt). So if that's the case, I'm satisfied. Will have to try the mode out to see if it is any better than the HC mode of NV.


But honestly, the way some people react to the slightest complaints. Fairly reasonable ones at that....

I vote no! The tendency for random CTD's however rare makes this unattractive. Make it a toggle or allow saves whenever.

Yes that's exactly what I meant. Thank you for contributing a knee jerk, smart ass response.

Options are good, but every game has the limit of options because certain things define the game and gameplay.


Deadspace 2 & 3 hardcoe mode severely limit # of save & # you can die.


Why didn`t they give players option to turn it off and on? Because certain things define how the mode should be played.



Again, the new survival mode will be for everyone to try but not for everyone to enjoy.


A bed can be found literally every minute in this game.


If a player cannot handle that small little task of finding a bed placed in different location, they are not fit to survive in new survival mode.

A lot of people act as if Survival mode is only option available in the game. lol


No, people will still retain their ability to play very easy, easy, normal, hard and very hard.



Furthermore, limiting saving to sleep/bed situation really means nothing but "YOU CANNOT SAVE DURING THE BATTLE" in this game.

I still feel like it's not an ideal approach to the intended goal. It's not going to make the game any more difficult, but rather just add an extra step for the sake of tedium disguised as functionality. I could get behind something that made death to be avoided more, provided more interesting penalties, etc. I just don't think this really does much to further those goals - more than anything, my issue with it is more philosophical. I (think) I can see what they're trying to accomplish, I just don't think this does that.

But...

You can get a sleeping bag to carry around that you can use to save at will, so that at least seems like a good compromise. There's other things that I think turn me off of Survival Mode, anyway. What I enjoyed in New Vegas with their hardcoe mode was the delayed healing and making crippled limbs a more critical condition that couldn't be solved just by slapping one of your 100 Stimpaks on. All those meters in the end didn't really have any effect on my approach to the game, and I don't think they really added anything engaging to the gameplay.

But (again...)

This has been a much-asked-for addition to Fallout 4 since it came out. I'm not going to wish anyone not to be able to play with functions I personally find tedious and arbitrary that I think would be better approached from a different direction. Bethesda's game design philosophy has long been that there's no wrong way to play their games. If people have fun with meters and stricter save points, then far be it for me to say they shouldn't be able to do so.

er, I think it's more than that. I honestly wouldn't mind if saving was never possible in a combat state to begin with, but if that's what they were going for it would have been easy enough to just gray out the save option and disable quicksaving during combat. Sleeping at beds makes it more like a checkpoint system, where you more than anything have to have some sort of plan moving from checkpoint to checkpoint.

I'm already annoyed I can't wait whenever i want. One of my favorite tactics in Skyrim was the wait until dark to attack. allowed to wait only only in a seat is unimmersive tp me and annoying. save only in a bed? So either I sleep constantly at weird times hunting down a bed ( which is not as easy as some have made it out to be. Sometimes I stayed up all night in game exploring and found nothing. Massive negative points for anyone deriding me over this) or I repeat whole days if i fail. Honestly. I was kind of excited about many of the other features but to bundle with this nonsense is very disappointing and them even considering it seems so against all their previous way of doing games.

Many others have posted " BGS has lost their way" posts but honestly this is the only thing that's ever come close to that bar for me. You " you're not fit" people just crawl back to Dark Souls. BGS games are not gamely punishing games Maybe we need an Immersion mode instead where its just environment and similar things like reduced healing and more serious limb repairs and give the weird crazed hardcoe mode a separate thing. I don't think they're really that related and should be separate. Honestly I wouldn't care if the actual survival stuff weren't bundled with the gamey "hardcoe" stuff . I hope for toggles because an actual , you know. survival mode would be fun.

Its the same with all the fuss about fast travel. I have considerably less than zero sympathy for those who hate but use it then want to take it out for everyone else . I have this perspective and I never use it myself.

But it forces them to find a bed and sleep at idiotic times.