Limited poll....

What most permadeath dungeon games do is delete the saves upon loads. This allows one to stop in the middle of the dungeon and continue another day, without possibility of save scumming to get lucky killing the boss or rerolling loot.

This should be an option to never delete saves upon loads, or delete only saves upon loads that was not made in a bed at nite, or delete the character entirely.

Some good points there. I disagree but that's my style vs yours and there's no right or wrong there.

But I will disagree with your argument against the "Don't have the time" claim. That's still an opinion of mine and it's 100% true for me and maybe for people like me. It's also absolutely not true for many other players. I WANT to play a more difficult survival mode that doesn't just do the bullet sponge ramp up that difficulty in the core game uses. I don't want a mechanic that I BELIEVE (not know) will likely make it impossible for me to play the game in that mode.

Let me ask you then. Why does a hardcoe mode have to rely on limiting saves vs introducing some other mechanic to raise difficulty? (I don't have an answer, I'm just kinda interested in your response and where this line of thought could go).

For your second point. That's a great point! I do wonder if they could pull that off and do a piecemeal difficulty setting? Other games have pulled that off in the past and since it's a single player game, playing how you, as an individual, want to play it is 100% legit!

I really hope your prediction here is accurate.

Not sure why some folks are so gun-ho for limited saving. Do they really lack self control? Or is it a you know what measuring thing? I am by no means trying to provoke a fight, I just can't see the reason for it.

The only thing saving limitation does is increase the chance at a bug *really* screwing up your game. Game altering things, sure can be fun. No fast travel? Hell even as a fast travel junkie, I can see the merit of going the slow route and seeing the sights. Especially if they enhance the other methods of travel given in this game. But limiting saves in a Beth game? Its like playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in the cylinder, it will get messy fast.

edit: Speaking as a person that used a mod for skyrim that kept 50 auto saves per character at regular intervals, so if any quest or mod bugged out I could quickly recover. It saved me countless times from both buggy vanilla quests and mods that had scripting errors.

There are some games that really use that mechanic well to create a sense of tension and danger. So there are definitely fans of that style. It never appealed to me, but it's a bit like the appeal of those "roguelike" games where you know that anything can happen and it's only your luck, tactics and knowledge of the system that can get you to the end.

Take FTL for example. It's a fun little game and the 2 core components to it are the lack of saving and the randomness. If you added save/loading to the game, it would make it more accessible, but would diminish the game and make it a lot less fun. Now you could add save/loading, but you'd need to change up certain aspects of the game's design to support that new function and it would still be fun, but in a completely different way. It would almost be an entirely different game.

And there's a mindset we all get where we think "if X made the game I loved better, it might make this game better too." And it's not a bad idea. Add it to cooking and it's how we get something like Scotch Eggs or really anything involving Ice Cream. Use that mindset to add magic to a FPS, and you get Bioshock. Now it doesn't always work and sometimes the addition weakens the game (though every game will have it's fans) or just doesn't fit like FTL and a save/load system, or taking X-COM and adding flight simulator.

They making Survival a actual challenge. Saving only on sleep isnt really a problem.

It makes no difference to me. If I want Survival Mode I'll use a mod.

Ah didn't really consider it in context of other games. Just kept thinking of the aggravation it'd bring to this one. I suppose given that context, my own love of random encounters would drive some insane. There is this nice mod for skyrim for instance, that added a chance at additional enemies every cell the character was at. So even the first dungeon might yield a surprise encounter or two.

I'd hate for the game to bug out somewhere or crash and I end up losing progress just because I couldn't find myself a bed. This feature doesn't sound like a good idea for a Bethesda game. And as someone said, you could just limit yourself and do this on your own. In fact, I remember hearing someone do this on the forums not too long ago in how they only saved when sleeping, so...

Either way, one big great solution to this whole Survival mode is just throw in the option to just toggle everything. From the mode itself, to different aspects from it (turn off the sleeping requirement but leave diseases on, vice versa). That would make for the ultimate customizing survival experience that can be played with one's own desires. Honestly, there would be no reason to be dissatisfied with this.

The vast majority of people are always going to vote for the easier option, that is how the human brain works. Thus making Survival into another easy mode.

Polls are the last thing they should EVER listen to when it comes to tweaking the new Survival.

Just make this optional, then can everyone pick the option he preferes

I want the survival stuff. Eating , drinking ,sleeping, more serious wounds etc not stupid "hardcoe mechanics" I don't think survival mode and increased normal type difficulty are actually related.

You know, just today I was 11 meters away from an Institute Courser, I had just fought my way up a tower full of hostile enemies and I crashed to desktop. Restricting when you can save is just a bad idea. Fallout 4 seems pretty stable but it isn't perfect. I really hope Bethesda leaves savegames out of the mix with survival mode.

Save on sleep is a bad idea. The game engine with mods will not be stable enough for me to ever trust it to save only when I sleep and with fast travel disabled. If this is a feature I will fire up the CK and mod it out as my first mod for the game.

The vast majority of people that play BGS's games like to have a choice. They can put it in if they want, but there will be a mod to disable within hours after release. I guarantee it.

I been playing games on PC for quite awhile .. it was at 1 point if u played a game that there was only maybe 3 or 4 save points in the whole game . so if u played for A hour and died , u lost that hour and had to restart from the previous point the game saved ..

then became games that had parts . , by that is you had to start at a given point and if u died before the next save point , u had to start all over from the last save point ..

well needless to say a console came along and then games had to change so saveable save function was added to games. which what we have today .

So a survival mode that u got to sleep to save . heck I going to carry a cot with me LOL and sleep 1 hour if need be or however long is necessary .. I just mite happen to meet someone on my travels that offers to buy lunch . no that be way kool .

course I have not seen anywhere that survival mode was mandatory and was only 1 survival mode . I do think it said was a variety to survival modes . guess will see

have a good day

i definitely know what you're saying about time limitations in general, i do have 24 hour days and no money tree either.

regrettably.

i'd be content with 30h and a small change bush already

...and i DO understand (and share) the pressure of the 1st playthrough, because. you. just. want. to. know. now.

but _none_ of this, not even the latter, will make it _impossible_ for you to play.

it may make it impossible to play _the_way_you're_used_to_.

but who says you can't take three years to complete your first playthrough? it's _your_ game!

as you correctly assumed, my own playstyle is pretty much like this already anyway, and on low levels, it can take me 1-2 days (= time i can play in a real day) to clear out a bigger dungeon location or get from goodneighbour to dc in one piece - so what? if i hadn't met father before 2018, who'd mind?

and one thing i can assure you of: it's challenge. not one second of this is boring. (quite the opposite, i personally find it boring as hell to clunk in in power armor and minigun whatever moves, yaaaaaawn....)

but admitted you'll likely not exactly get to do getting-things-done-runs.

but even then: like my char is now, lvl 83 and expert in pretty much everything, i just wouldn't mind, cuz i don't die, it's a tuxedo law

really, i think you just need to drop the idea of a game being something to be consumed in favor of it being something to grant you an experience and you'll be fine.

even if you'd never even finish the mainquest or whatever.

...and a reminder to put all this pretty much into relation: you still can change difficulty back anytime anyway

Actually, we have PC gaming to thank for the concept of a save file.


They were allowing us to have save disks (our old 386 had an extra 5 1/4" drive basically just for that) while NES and Sega Master System were still following through with coin-op concepts.

No.

My response is simple: If you don't like it, don't play it.

Otherwise wait to see if they are optional or mandatory, then head over to nexus mods/ bethesda site to get a mod that stops it.

I come from the Dead Is Dead culture though (where loading saves is forbidden and when you'r dead, well, you're dead... new character) so to me it still seems a bit softcoe. Try some dungeon crawlers like stone soup which will make you cry from initial frustration but then leads you gently into the acceptance that not every game is about "winning" it, but finding enjoyment elsewhere.

I'm looking forward to survival mode, but I won't use it if saves are restricted. Fortunately, I doubt very much that Bethesda would implement something like that without making it optional.

Some of the survival needs I really like. Hopefully we can have a series of toggles to turn on what we want and leave off what we don't.


Fast travel, I'm a father, I commute a long distance to work, and I have daily free time measured in less than an hour. When I can get in a few hours of play time on a weekend I don't want to spend it schlepping typewriters back to Sanctuary Hills. I do like the idea of it though, just in my case I think I would rarely enjoy that restriction.


Save on sleep only- even worse for me. If there was some sort of true death penalty in Fallout instead of just a replay from where you last remembered to save maybe I could see it. If companions could die (or if we could name settlers and use them as companions who really could die) then maybe I could see it. As it is when I die and realize I forgot to save recently and I lost 45 minutes or an hour of play time my reaction is usually to turn the game off and go do something else. I can envision turning the game off a lot if I can only save when I sleep.

i don't get how everybody sees this as "restricted saves".

there's beds _everywhere_.

you can sleep _anytime_.

the only thing it actually means is, if you want to save, you'll have to do a little something to earn it, which is find the next best bed.

which i doubt will at any point in the game be further away from you than your sniper gun can see

What this guy said.

Keep in mind modern games are just spoiling us anyway. Remember in old games you either had designated save points or the moment you died you had to start over. It is part of the challenge and survival mode means survival, limiting you to saving only at a specific time prevents save scumming and makes the game more of a challange.

That said an easy way to make both parties happy would be to make a bead role or sleeping bag which can be used to place a bead anywhere so you can sleep anywhere, but it would have to have a good weight and be limited in use, like a bead role would be a one time use thing and a sleeping bag may not heal you.

EDIT;

also here is how common beads are in the game, I found one on the top layer of a highway in the middle of nowhere in a location only power armor can access.

These are the reasons why they'd think about only allowing saving when you sleep. The entire point of Survival Mode seems to be to make the player be more cautious and change the way the game is played.