Should the Dwemer Return?

Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:47 am

Yes, but that should be the mq of a future elder scrolls not just DLC
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Steph
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:34 am

Hence, why I stated a prequel..

:biggrin:
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Tracey Duncan
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:14 am

Hammerfell is the last place in Tamriel to have had a strong Dwemer presence, so if the return of the Dwemer is happening in the next game, it is likely going to take place there.
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:21 am

There are good arguments for both sides. I agree with both. I think it would be interesting lore to explore. But I also think they are interesting because they are not around and the player is required to use their imagination. I also think, if Dwemer were to return, that would be an entire new game's worth of content. I would like to see it, but I don't think it could be done justice as a DLC the size of Dawnguard. Maybe if they made it the focal point of a full expansion pack or a new TES game.
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Samantha Mitchell
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:08 am

How could you not love those that say it can be randomly changed to suit what they want to do in order to make a new game? So, think of any tv series you watch or any good series of books you read. Would you be happy if they suddenly changed something about them to suit what direction they wanted to go? Oh yes, if it was something you wanted then you'd be happy I'm sure. I'm sorry but I don't get this. Yes, it belongs to them. Yes it's their story. But yes, they are selling it publicly and have developed a fan base. So there is a certain amount of responsibility. To just change things willy nilly because they want to go down a path.. silly.

That makes no sense. TV series, book series, they all change in plot over time. Um... let's see, oh, how about that little known world... the Star Wars universe where a bright light of a child becomes the second most vile man in the universe. Having become the embodiment and symbol of all that is evil, in the end, he redeems himself, becomes good, and becomes one with the Light Side. Um, no, that was incredibly "disappointing". OR, my favorite Sci-Fi lit series of all time... Dune. The focus shifts from the be all/end all "savior" of prophecy to his children. Ongoing stories are plastic, as long as the plot line is reasonable within context, it can shift at any time, and very often does. These are called "plot twists". ;)

So again, you may not want to see it, but it could EASILY be done in keeping with lore, and in context.
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Multi Multi
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:53 am

That makes no sense. TV series, book series, they all change in plot over time. Um... let's see, oh, how about that little known world... the Star Wars universe where a bright light of a child becomes the second most vile man in the universe. Having become the embodiment and symbol of all that is evil, in the end, he redeems himself, becomes good, and becomes one with the Light Side. Um, no, that was incredibly "disappointing". OR, my favorite Sci-Fi lit series of all time... Dune. The focus shifts from the be all/end all "savior" of prophecy to his children. Ongoing stories are plastic, as long as the plot line is reasonable within context, it can shift at any time, and very often does. These are called "plot twists". :wink:

So again, you may not want to see it, but it could EASILY be done in keeping with lore, and in context.

Okay, yes it may make no sense if you don't understand it. No, I'm not speaking about simple changes in the story. I'm talking about how Victor Kiriakis dies.. and dies... and dies. He always comes back. This isn't a simple matter of someone becoming evil and then turning back to good. You do see the difference, correct?

I get it, you want Victor back. That's okay, I simply don't agree with that.. I don't like daytime tv... that's okay too.
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An Lor
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:45 pm

Sorry, who writes the lore again? You're telling the people who wrote the lore... what the lore is. It's like telling an author what their book is about. They know what it's about and if they have a reason to change it later (like, say... the populace of Tamriel thought the disappearance of the Dwemer was because of one thing, but actually they were wrong and it wasn't because of what they thought it was) then that's up to them really. Fair enough, don't buy the games if you really think the lore is completely fixed and can never be changed (bear in mind in real civilisation, we learn more as time progresses and we learn that things aren't always what we though they were), but you'll only be cutting your nose off to spite your face.
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Heather Dawson
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:37 am

Okay, yes it may make no sense if you don't understand it. No, I'm not speaking about simple changes in the story. I'm talking about how Victor Kiriakis dies.. and dies... and dies. He always comes back. This isn't a simple matter of someone becoming evil and then turning back to good. You do see the difference, correct?

I get it, you want Victor back. That's okay, I simply don't agree with that.. I don't like daytime tv... that's okay too.


Please. I understand it completely. I understand literature, story writing, plot devices, et. al.

I have absolutely no idea who Victor Kiriakis is, not from TES for sure, but apparently you do. Apparently who also dies, comes back. Okay. But again, that makes no sense, and has NO bearing on whether or not there can be a Dwemer return. We're not talking about individuals, we're talking about the RACE. Nobody here, that I have read, has suggested or insinuated that Kagrenac, or any specific dwemer should be part of that return. The lack of comprehension, vision, and imagination is not on my part.

I still have no idea what your reference to daytime TV has to do with anything. Alduin returned. The Snow Elves returned. The Psijics returned from their self-imposed exile. Personally, yes, I think the return of the Dwemer is likely only a matter of time. HOWEVER, this isn't about that. You're saying a return is not possible without turning TES into some half-baked, unthought-out tripe. That's absolutely not true and I can present way after way (that I'm sure you'll disagree with, so why bother) that's perfectly in keeping with the lore and story. I don't know about you, but I don't live on a flat earth that sits at the center of the solar system. And, in my world, the previously thought extinct Coelocanth is alive and well. Well, not the fossilized remains, but the species as a whole. Sheesh.
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A Dardzz
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:38 pm

No the Dwemer shouldn't return, because they CAN"T return.

to make a long story short, the Mer view Lorkhan as the "Trickster" because when Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating Mundas, they (including the Elves) lost their immortality. So the Mer belive that the only way to regain their immortality is by "unraveling" Mundas

The Dwemer...succeded in "ascending"...in otherwords...the Dwemer "uncreated themselves" they have "unravled themselves" from Mundas...they are no longer a part of that plane of existence....the Dwemer knew EXACTLY what they were doing at Red mountain with Lorkhan heart...them dissappearing was them disconnecting themselves from this plane of existence...in otherwords...the Dwemer have succedded in doing what the Thalmor wish to do.....

In simple terms, the Dwemer are sorta like The Ideal Masters....immortal and have no longer any need for a tangible or copreal body. To bring them back would ruin and break the lore all together.

If Bethesda brings back the Dwemer, then they might as well bring back the Ayleids too! :(
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Mark
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:16 am

No the Dwemer shouldn't return, because they CAN"T return.

to make a long story short, the Mer view Lorkhan as the "Trickster" because when Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating Mundas, they (including the Elves) lost their immortality. So the Mer belive that the only way to regain their immortality is by "unraveling" Mundas

The Dwemer...succeded in "ascending"...in otherwords...the Dwemer "uncreated themselves" they have "unravled themselves" from Mundas...they are no longer a part of that plane of existence....the Dwemer knew EXACTLY what they were doing at Red mountain with Lorkhan heart...them dissappearing was them disconnecting themselves from this plane of existence...in otherwords...the Dwemer have succedded in doing what the Thalmor wish to do.....

In simple terms, the Dwemer are sorta like The Ideal Masters....immortal and have no longer any need for a tangible or copreal body. To bring them back would ruin and break the lore all together.

If Bethesda brings back the Dwemer, then they might as well bring back the Ayleids too! :(
Tbh the return of the ayleids seems more interesting.
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Bedford White
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:11 am

No the Dwemer shouldn't return, because they CAN"T return.

to make a long story short, the Mer view Lorkhan as the "Trickster" because when Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating Mundas, they (including the Elves) lost their immortality. So the Mer belive that the only way to regain their immortality is by "unraveling" Mundas

The Dwemer...succeded in "ascending"...in otherwords...the Dwemer "uncreated themselves" they have "unravled themselves" from Mundas...they are no longer a part of that plane of existence....the Dwemer knew EXACTLY what they were doing at Red mountain with Lorkhan heart...them dissappearing was them disconnecting themselves from this plane of existence...in otherwords...the Dwemer have succedded in doing what the Thalmor wish to do.....

In simple terms, the Dwemer are sorta like The Ideal Masters....immortal and have no longer any need for a tangible or copreal body. To bring them back would ruin and break the lore all together.

If Bethesda brings back the Dwemer, then they might as well bring back the Ayleids too! :(

This is speculation only. All we KNOW is the evidence that exists. A "god" says he has no sense of them, and they do not appear to be anywhere within the realm of mortals. HOWEVER, that does not preclude any number of possibilities. Let's assume you're correct and that they have "ascended" (which would technically be against lore, since they are nowhere that the god could sense). They could be summoned then, likely by the Thalmor. "Ceased to be completely" is a little trickier, but not impossible. There was opposition to Kagrenac. It is entirely possible that that opposition lives on, protected in some way from every one, including a god. They'd have to be that well protected, after all, according to the lore. Not the way Vyrthur and Gelebor were protected, not through isolation, but through magic, an artifact equally as powerful, or moreso, as the Heart. The Eye could easily be this artifact. The time-loop/mobius strip of space-time is another device that could be used. And the Elder Scrolls, well, they make anything possible, no don't they? And the DB has uncovered THREE of them.

On the Ayleids, they're only "presumed" extinct. And, in fact, there are references to the possibility of isolated pockets within Cyroldil still existing. Although, they've been out of touch for a millenia, at least.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:28 am

I do love people saying "Well the lore of TES says this and the lore must be fixed so there's no way Beth, the people who wrote the lore, could ever bring the Dwemer back."

Just because these in-game books say one thing, doesn't mean it can't be changed later. The lore is never fixed simply because it's all false anyway. TES VI could end with an alien invasion and it would be lore. Beth write the lore so I think it's up to them what happened to the Dwemer and whether or not it's possible for the Dwemer to come back.

Bang on, too many people consider "lore" to be 100% cast in stone it's what totally happened history.

Our historical texts contain errors. Off hand, Herodotus used to wildly inflate numbers, to the point where they were (and are) simply unfeasible.
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Amber Ably
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:57 pm

Give me your thoughts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc....
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Mashystar
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:44 am

So if the dwemer did return how would you go about doing it?
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Nikki Lawrence
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:56 am

Yeah..sure...why not
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Skivs
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:40 pm

Bang on, too many people consider "lore" to be 100% cast in stone it's what totally happened history.

Our historical texts contain errors. Off hand, Herodotus used to wildly inflate numbers, to the point where they were (and are) simply unfeasible.

To true books are only as good as the people that wrote them. We read them in game and take them to be the truth, it's like believing everything you read on the internet.
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Laurenn Doylee
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:38 am

This is speculation only. All we KNOW is the evidence that exists. A "god" says he has no sense of them, and they do not appear to be anywhere within the realm of mortals. HOWEVER, that does not preclude any number of possibilities. Let's assume you're correct and that they have "ascended" (which would technically be against lore, since they are nowhere that the god could sense). They could be summoned then, likely by the Thalmor. "Ceased to be completely" is a little trickier, but not impossible. There was opposition to Kagrenac. It is entirely possible that that opposition lives on, protected in some way from every one, including a god. They'd have to be that well protected, after all, according to the lore. Not the way Vyrthur and Gelebor were protected, not through isolation, but through magic, an artifact equally as powerful, or moreso, as the Heart. The Eye could easily be this artifact. The time-loop/mobius strip of space-time is another device that could be used. And the Elder Scrolls, well, they make anything possible, no don't they? And the DB has uncovered THREE of them.

On the Ayleids, they're only "presumed" extinct. And, in fact, there are references to the possibility of isolated pockets within Cyroldil still existing. Although, they've been out of touch for a millenia, at least.

Makes sense. Who's to say that while Kagrenac was busy frigging around with the Heart, there wasn't someone else secretly working on a way to keep at least some of the Dwemer from being giant-stompy-robotified? And who's to say they did or didn't succeed? I mean, there are living, uncorrupted Snow Elves, and according to a couple of in-game texts there are still Ayleid clans living deep in the forests of Cyrodiil, so what's stopping there being a city full of dwemer locked up safe in a pocket dimension or whatever maintained by some artifact that protected them from the Heart?
Sure, the lore says that they were all incorporated into the shell of the Numidium. But how would you know for sure? Anything's possible, and, as has been said before, there are any number of ways that gamesas could bring at least some of the Dwemer back without breaking the lore.
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Annika Marziniak
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:26 am

So if the dwemer did return how would you go about doing it?
new wave req hm? hail hail my friend
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Miss K
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:34 am

If the snow elves survived why shouldn't the dwemer i mean yeah i fully agree that there should be some sort of untouched huge underground city where all of the dwarves went to live and escape the outside world. the concept of having a secret city is very cool in my opinion even something slightly related like the last dwemer alive in the world (although that was in morrowind) would be awesome and provide a great storyline.
Spoiler

The snow elves were never actually completely gone to begin with. Most of them just either mutated into other creatures or became interbred with the other races, like the Altmer for example. The snow elves were only ever implied to be extinct, and not actually confirmed to be completely extinct. Though with that being said, it's actually not really known if the ENTIRE Dwemer race has been reduced to nothingness, or if there are (very small) pockets of Dwemer that may have been unaffected like the last living dwemer. That fact in itself is part of the mystery of the Dwemer, that most assume that ALL the Dwemer (aside from Yagrum Bagarn, though he may not have survived the eruption of Red Mountain) are now dead and destroyed.

Because of the mystery regarding the disappearance of the Dwemer, many have accepted the conclusion that Yagrum Bagarn is the only "living" Dwemer left, and that all the rest have been literally wiped from existence, and have been in that mindset for roughly ten years now. Unraveling the mysteries (which includes elements beyond simply the disappearance) behind the Dwemer at this point could prove to be very volatile, much like how Prometheus
Spoiler
was met with criticism when it came down to start unraveling the mystery behind the "space jockeys."

Bang on, too many people consider "lore" to be 100% cast in stone it's what totally happened history.

Our historical texts contain errors. Off hand, Herodotus used to wildly inflate numbers, to the point where they were (and are) simply unfeasible.
There's a lot of people who are like that, where every little detail about something in the lore should be "100% cast in stone." Generally speaking, the further down the line that something in the lore is changed, the worse the reactions tend to be. Some exceptions to this include comic books and Doctor Who, which tend to face a lot of retcons due to the long term continuities.

Spoiler
Though it should be fair to say that Falion does mention that he's seen Dwemer in the planes of Oblivion, but of course he could also be crazy, too. He does have a seemingly unhealthy obsession with vampires after all.
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Nicole M
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:15 pm

In my opinion bringing the Dwemer back would serve no purpose. I'd rather leave them as a mystery than have them abruptly return after (Event) happened. We already have that with Alduin.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
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lilmissparty
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:58 pm

Give me your thoughts.
Yes they should, but for add- on content.
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Krista Belle Davis
 
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Post » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:52 pm

No. Leave it a mystery. If they returned that would be a sad ruin to the lore.
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:17 am

If the dwemer return, then the Elder Scrolls series would be totally defeated.
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Ana
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:47 am

If the dwemer return, then the Elder Scrolls series would be totally defeated.
I agree. If the Dwemer return then they might as well add sasquatches hunting the Thalmor. :rofl:
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Manny(BAKE)
 
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Post » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:40 am

If the dwemer return, then the Elder Scrolls series would be totally defeated.
Bethesda wouldn't have that as the canon ending. All the races would band together, putting aside their hatred for each other and outsmart the dwemer by unmaking themselves. The end. :unsure2:
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Sunny Under
 
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