I understand. You want a world more open to your influence, so you truly feel like the actions you make shape the game. And yes, perhaps some people do take lore too seriously; For us lore adds to the enjoyability. So I am not discrediting you in the slightest, yet, i do enjoy TES being built upon a world that i can immerse myself in. That means everything fits together, appropriately, and it builds upon itself.

So in my humble opinion (yeah yeah a cliche), i believe a single, epic, glorious, canon, unavoidable ending is the best way to go.

@ Alex man 142

I votes yes, but if this was the case I would like Bethesda to declare one ending canon.

Yes. If they don't give options for the main quest on whether your going to play an evil character and cause pandemonium, or a good character and be the hero, tesv may be my last tes game. Takes the role play out of rpg...

I dont think any game should have an ending that forces you to be good or evil, however, I believe the peril should be so grand that evil-doers and do-gooders alike would stand against it. And it should only be one ending. Just makes sense.

Then you have to admit that we are not talking about a real rpg game, which everything is influenced by your character, its something else i dont know what yet, but something else, the funny thing for me is that purists want the game to be loyal to the lore, which is ok to me, but they sacrifice the gameplay for the sake of the lore, which is something that i cannot understand

If the game is good (it will be), then I don't really care what they do with it

Alright you make a (super)character which has one dinstictive attribute at last, he is evil, how this fits to the story? cmon purists, lets see what you got now

Multiple endings based on your actions from a choice that was given to you ala New Vegas is good. I would have liked to have joined the Mythic Dawn in Oblivion but it wouldn't let you, the option of choice does add a lot of depth.

Look all I'm saying is; What if you could follow multiple paths with different outcomes throughtout the entire game, but the ending is set in stone on a grand scale. Of course details could be different, of course! but the overall gist of the story shouldn't vary.


@jimis

Of course i don't want the game-play to suffer for story...... :facepalm: Dude, accurate storylines make the game-play better, duh!

And we'd all be happy if you could join any faction, fight evil or goddy two-shoes types..... and still stop ourselves from destruction in the final battle. Does that sound so bad?

You were talking about books and lore ok? if the character who ends the game is evil, is not a minor detail right? what i m saying is that lore is one thing and the game is another, because the game either we like it or not as an rpg has elements that make the story vary (because rpg gives many possibilities) otherwise you shouldnt be able to be a bad guy, this element and the story doesnt fit, but for the developers is alright so why multiple endings should be a problem? and you taking things on a big scale, i dont care about the lore, i care about the gameplay and i really want when i m evil to be rewarded as an evil character which means just have an evil trophy or something that has to do with that character not necesserily an and that impacts the whole story, an end which could refer to the specific race or something like that, does that sound so bad?

Perhaps the ending could be handled in such a way that the ending for Skyrim as a whole is always the same yet there are different endings for your character. That way the lore can remain constant without a need for a Dragon Break but there can be some variation in the ending.

Ok, I agree with the fact that evil characters may recieve a different reward for thier efforts, or choose to slay the enemy in a different way. But the most fully fleshed speculation theory( http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152130-the-story-behind-skyrim-v20/ ) currently places dragons trying to slay everyone. Not good guys, not bad guys, everyone; in order to return to thier past divinity.

Therefore, whether you are good or bad, the dragons must die. The path leading to thier destruction can vary, resulting in multiple pathways/storylines for good or bad characters. But, in the end, all dragons must be defeated. A different middle ground (good / evil / neutral) may result in you recieveing the final quest to kill the dragons from a different person, but you are still killing the dragons just as any character would. For an evil character to say "Muahaha i will help the dragons!" would result in Nirn being destroyed, no doubt, and the possibility for a future ES game to be slim to none.

Once again, why would Beth do that and cause thier most popular series to wither away? You see, By having different pathways to an end, you will have more fun throughout the whole game, while still having a canon ending that preserves the possibility for future games and allows Nirn(Planet TES takes place on) to live to see another day.

You will still have good/evil rewards/outcomes throughout the middle of the game. And those outcomes won't be epic enough to tie into the massive story of TES universe. Everyone is happy.

Boom.

I really dont care at all, about the dragons or anything really, i dont care if they make it they way you refer or whatever, i want my decisions to have a full impact on the game, my interaction with the other characters, my rewards, the end, everything, i dont care about the lore, the engine of the game should be able to handle the game like a DM

I believe the whole conversation is pointless, for me this is just good, i ve seen games which despite of how they end, the next one goes according to the story the developers wanted, the story is one thing and the gameplay is another, is that clear?!

Id be up for a couple different endings, provided that it really felt like I caused them with my character and not something randomly forced.

The only way the game would be able to handle things the way you want, like a Dungeon Master in a Pen and Paper game, would be for the game to be an AI advanced far beyond the latest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)-type chess playing computer.

In short, what you are asking for (nay, demanding and insisting it's possible because you want it "so there, nyaaaah") is simply. not. possible.

Or at least not practical- unless you'd like to see a game hit the shelves with a 4-digit price tag if you're lucky. "Skyrim, on sale now- just $7800.00!" That would go over like a fart in church, don't you think?



I agree completely, though I strongly suspect we feel the same way for very different reasons. :shrug:




Clear as mud. Maybe story and gameplay are totally different things in some genres, but in CRPGs they're about as inseparable as things can be. If story doesn't matter to you, then you're in the wrong place.

lol!!! i havent said exactly like a dm, but it should try atleast, excuse me for not clarifying that, dont worry i wouldnt like to buy a supercomputer from nasa to be able to play it, but i guess you dont have a clue of how an rpg game should be like
I agree completely too, though I strongly suspect we feel the same way for very different reasons. :shrug:
Well story doesnt matter to me, so its ok with you, should i stay?

I'll say no. Why? Because the main quest lets you continue playing in Oblivion. If Skyrims main quest lets you continue after it, and it would have different endings, it would be really hard to make it relevant and balanced, if it would be about race/class etc.

Muliple endings outside your character creation? I'd vote yes. Why? Because that would let my evil character and good character have a different main quest ending, impacting further on what I do later on.

No my friend i m not saying just about the ending, i m saying about a whole impact on the gameplay according to your character, i write it on the description of the poll
and of course i reffered to a previews reply about making an evil character should have a huge impact and a different ending, its rediculous to play evil in the whole game and in the end of the story be a hero

Here s a funny article about oblivion, in the end it describes its flaws pretty well XD http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion

Jimis, is English your native language? You don't seem to be grasping the (what I thought were) very reasonable points presented throughout this thread, so I can't help but wonder.

I'm going to re-iterate his point because you obviously don't understand what he is trying to say.


This is basically what he is saying:

Multiple small differences in middle of main story/quest --> Some minor differences in end which wouldn't effect a lot of people + one basic ending that stands for every different 'ending'

There could be minor impacts to things such as race, or preferred class, or quests taken that may make the middle of the quest-line different, you may do different quests or there might be differences in how different NPC's react to you, or which factions support you in your endeavors, but in the end it will still be the same ending. Lets take your example of playing an 'evil' character (which form the very start is flawed considering that a character cannot be evil and would in reality simply be working for what they perceive as the greater good, but nevertheless I will address it) lets say that your character is so 'evil' that he wants to join Mehrunes Dagon and the Mythic Dawn in destroying the world. As game developers, Todd and the rest of the guys will have a problem, which I will illustrate through the following made-up conversation:

Developer 1: Hey I have a great idea, lets make it so that the player can join the Mythic Dawn and help destroy the world!
Developer 2: I like the idea, but if we let the player destroy the world, how would we explain that the world still exists in the next game?

Now the developers could go in a number of different directions from here, check the spoiler tags to see the different outcomes of their future decisions...








Now a small personal response from me:


I noticed that somewhere you inquired to what canon means, canon refers to what is accepted as lore-correct, a good example of problems with canon is the Star Wars series, where there are so many conflicting stories, books, games etc. that Lucas has to step in and say "Look, this is right, this is wrong, if you don't like it then deal with it." Which is a blunt and rather distasteful way to fix the problem.


@ Alex Man 142

Would you say that it is unfair that life forces you to breathe, drink water, sleep and eat and that it is shoving these things down your throat? Sometimes there is an inevitable that must be done, if the world is going to be destroyed by dragons there are only two real options, fight or run. Its not about them forcing you to do something, its about what would be possible and what would make sense.



That is a safe way to do things and I agree, giving the option of choice is good like in Morrowind where you could ask to join Dagoth Ur, but you couldn't because that would go against everything that the player character was, regardless of their actions within the game.

@ Jimis

You seem to be completely sure of what an RPG is, however I have yet to see how you would. An RPG is a role-playing game, it could be linear or it could be done sand-box style, it can force you down a certain path and it can open you up to various decisions, but rarely, no, never have I seen a game which allows for complete freedom in all of its decisions. Show me a game like this and I will submit to it being possible, however until then your idea is flawed in that it is simply not possible.


EDIT:

Lets not turn this thread into a language debate please, though I should note that when posting it was sometimes difficult to understand what you were trying to say Jimis, re-reading your posts and trying to help clarify them before-hand can go a long way in helping others understand you.

Then you are aware a good characterisation is dependent on decisions and consequences. It's also what makes roleplaying so rewarding. Having a singular ending means taking away possible decisions from players and thus hurt the characterisation of their own character. If they choose to align themselves with the dragon for instance it would show a lot about the personality of the character they're playing. And declaring the wrong endings "non-canon" would solve all the problems for the lore-enthusiasts. It's a neat compromise.

Also, I can name a few games with superb multiple endings:
KotoR 1, the Witcher, Mass Effect 2, Neverwinter Nights 2: mask of the betrayer