Maybe you were sure it was a jungle, but I wasn't. Sure I had read about it somewhere but only as a small notion in a large piece of text. Nothing that I would grab on to to an extent of what many here on the forum are doing. In arena it wasn't a jungle so why were you so sure it was a jungle?

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-and-its-environs-first-edition, which was released with Redguard, and when TES began to have the lore we know today.

So that weights more than Oblivion in your eyes? Also how do we know that it really is a jungle? Maybe jungle is just a choice of word that the author used because he lacked a better one to describe what he had seen. Some of the forests in Oblivion could certainly appear jungle-like if seen by someone whose origins stem from tree less places.

What I'm trying to say is that lore isn't written in stone and should in my opinion always be considered with ease and not be taken literrary.

What the hell? I never said that, I was just tossing in what people were expecting, especially since the game was changing heavily from TES: Arena to Redguard. Don't you dare be stuffing words in my mouth.

I was never regarded Cyrodiil as a jungle, just becouse Imperials wasn't looked like a jungle-origined civilization. Even though it was described as "endless jungle" in "Provinces of Tamriel".

And I think a lot of very early lore, of Daggerfall or even Arena era, could be smoothly merged with current lore, providing sometimes interesting concepts.

You're just trying to find faults in the PGE, even though there are none. It very clearly describes Cyrodiil as a jungle (which evokes a very clear image, not a general woodland), and is supported by Provinces of Tamriel (which was found as late as Morrowind). The writers of the PGE are Imperials living in Cyrodiil, so you can't exactly say that they don't know what a jungle looks like. The point is that Bethesda changed their lore, for one reason or another, not that everything about a Cyrodiilic jungle was somehow metaphor or exaggeration.

Lore should be interpreted, yes, but that doesn't mean that everything prior to the current game is wrong or that it is an entirely organic process lacking in real-life bureaucracy.


To me, this screams "boring and therefore wrong," or, more directly: "lets stick to comfortable clichés, guys." Just because someone lives in a jungle doesn't mean they have to look/feel Aztec. See: Amerindian inspired Ashlanders in Morrowind.

Can't do anything with it - Imperial seems to me like Mesopotamians or at least like Mediterraneans. And for Amerindian Ashlanders - they got a lot of Mongoloid nomads traits.

Oblivion and Arena beg to differ to PGE and in my opinion that can be regarded as a major fault in PGE.

Im just trying to say that lore shouldn't be taken to seriously and only because it was written in a book doesn't make it true, in this case the PGE.

Arena did not take place in Cyrodiil, had a 20x20 resolution, and no lore what so ever. Oblivion took place 450 years after the PGE was written in universe time, and about 10 in real life. Bethesda's priorities changed, that does not make the PGE wrong.

Just because its shows in a game doesn't make it true, either

It is said that Talos took away the jungles and made Cyrodiil what it is today. It's in the game Oblivion, so, by logic, Cyrodiil USED to be a jungle till Talos came into the picture.

Then Talos is a one big [censored]. I'd much prefer to walk around in a jungle, rather than the modern Cyrodiil...

It is refered to in the Mythic Dawn commentaries and "From the Many-headed Talos"

DONT INSULT MY GOD!



lol kidding talos is my least favorite of the nine divines I liked it better when there were eight the empire must fall!

The Septim Empire already fell, get with the times. It's Mede Empire all the way now.

ain't it funny how time changes things... like lore?

Time marches on...

No. Obviously.

I'm going to break the trend and say yes. However, I don't mean "yes - abandon everything we have now" but instead "yes - update it." Lore is not and should not be stagnant: major political, societal, and economic changes (i.e. an "overhaul") are realistic and fun. In 1E100, central Tamriel is a loose confederation of Ayleidic city-states. In 1E500, it is a theocratic kingdom believing in a single God. In 2E1, it is ruled by snakes. In 3E1, it is the seat of a continent-wide empire, ruled by a newly divine god-king. It does not make sense that in TESV, 250 years into the 4th era, Tamriel will be the same as it was at the 4th era's start.

I agree with many of the above posters. Part of the fun is having multiple theories to explain the same thing (the creation myths or disappearance of the dwemer). That's how the real world is, so why should TES be this sterile purist history? The fact that there are discrepancies makes it all the more interesting. It feels real, less made-up.

Dragon Break anyone?

End the kalpa Bethesda. You know you want to. :shifty:

That isn't so much an overhaul as natural progression, I'd say. That may just be a difference in semantics, when you get down to it, but that sounds an awful lot like what happened between Daggerfall and Morrowind: improvement by addition.

The great thing about this community is its ability to take the flawed lore and run with it. Creating little factions pro-porting one theory and one for another. It's all quite brilliant. So, no. Let those beautiful sons-of-[censored]es at Bethesda be and play the hand you're dealt.

That's is exactly what I meant

In which case, you should probably learn to phrase your arguments better, because your first post was essentially the opposite of what I said.