Ofcourse can you be critical, but dont flame on it like theres no tomorrow. That statement about swords(sorry bad english really, dont know the word) was not so good i belive. And you could replace spellmaking with more and various spells in game. I alomst never used spellmaking in Oblivion, the high prise ordinary spells where much better than anything you could do in spellmaking.

I'm surprised this is worth remarking upon for anyone with even a little experience of developer forums. To criticise and complain about things one doesn't like, often in an emotional, hasty or inconsiderate way, is very human. And Bethesda's forums seem to have higher than normal numbers of intelligent and reasonable posters, whatever their individual opinions of a given game feature.

The people who don't care about the game don't even post, so even if we all have different preferences and hopes for upcoming games, we're at least united in caring about it one way or another. Also consider that one has to purchase a game in order to play it even once (since most RPGs lack demos), so judging a game's potential failings before we've experienced them directly is perfectly rational behaviour.

This should be a sticky.

:thumbsup:

The way I see it, it's like we are the citizens of a country. If we don't speak out on thing's we don't like our government will just keep making poorer and poorer decisions based off of what they think is best for us.

Remember, they work for us. We give them our money for this stuff. If we feel we are entitled to something better then we should speak out.

Personally the majority of what ive heard so far has been positive and i'm psyched but i'm not about to start kissing feet until I see more of the finished product.

I can't believe how much so called Elder Scrolls fans around here whine and [censored]. It sickens me. People should show more gratitude to Bethesda for giving us such incredible open world RPGs.

Skyrim is adding more feature than it's taking away, in my opinion. Total support dude.

maybe some of the post that are complaints seem (or are) hyperbolic, that may have something to do with the demographic of the forum though. saw it last night and it really explains why alot of the extremity of some peoples posts.

The devs should be thankful that they get paid to do that.

This remark is based on the assumption that those of us who don't care if there is spell making or not are not huge fans of the series. That assumption is wrong, I wouldn't even be here right now if I wasn't a huge fan of the series. Everything I've seen in print and online has made me quite happy to see where things are going. With the noted exception of Steam worship.

For a large chunk of people, the lack of a spell maker may not even be noticed, let alone cried over. You can't seriously be suggesting none of them are "actual fans"?

That had nothing to do with making the spells. I could buy a cheap one and cast it anyways. You wouldn't even need to be mages guild. For destruction just go to Peryite's shrine.

You bought their previous product. They did the labor and you purchased said good; end of transaction and obligation of both parties, barring warrenties, right?

Why do you feel entitled to something in the furutre when you have not given them an advanced payment?

After having a look at the thread in question i hope its just a bad translation and this is the case, that there are generic NPC's that you cannot talk to like FO3 but still plenty you can.
It would be a fairly undeniably bad move by bethesda to only allow you to talk to quest givers and no one else.

But even the other article apparently states that non quest givers can only be asked about 'rumors' which would also be very disappointing.
Ah, the wonders of fully voiced dialogue...


Edit for spelling.

If you come face to face with another wizard, you’ll want to keep an attacking spell in one hand and improve your defense by equipping a ward spell in the other. Suddenly, magic duels become much more interesting, as you must attack at the opportune time, use the ward as a shield when your opponent is casting spells your way, and manage your magicka level by consuming potions. (GI)

Obvious, we have conflicting information. In said situations, best not to jump to a solid conclusion.
My personal opinion is a spell improves with skill, making the creation of your own fire spell void. Not condoling the removal of creating custom spells, (weakness to magic 100/paralyze for 5 secs ) just not damning.

I get what you are saying, but you and others a slightly mistaken. There are people, like you, who don't care about it. But that is a fairly small portion of people.
People new to the series might not care, they hadn't experienced it before.
But a lot of people will care. Its not a small percentage, it is a very significant percentage.

Im really not trying to get back into the spellmaking fight, but it should be known that it is a significant percentage of people that it hurts.

I hear this a lot. And I also hear people saying we should be grateful we even have these games. In truth, I think there exists a healthy middle ground between the two. Bethesda is made up of humans, we shouldn't say "Oh well they EXIST because of us" They do, but they also provide a service for us. It's symbiotic, and we should be thankful but at the same time critical in a constructive manner. I'm sure they are thankful, as well. The thing is, people are leaving the "constructive" out of their criticism, and it just comes off as snobbish.

Also, change happens. thank goodness.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1163188-custom-spells-and-spellmaking/

Agreed, but even the most destructive criticism offers a small light of constructive criticism.
A lot of the time when people complain about one system they, or someone else, try to discuss an alternative. That takes it back to contructive.
I have been to active in the spellmaking issue. But whenever I posted I tried to note that despite what it solves or why its there, it can be worked around. There was construction there.

Even in the darkest nights, the stars shine bright.

but I am proud to be a thankless person (I'm american dammit!) we see something we don't like we argue and argue until we find something else to argue about. the devs are not entitled to my money and if I don't like what they turn out I won't spend my money one it.

You know, this whole situation reminds me of the naysayers who said that TESV would be an MMO or would never exist, due to a somewhat out of context message of "no current plans".

They kept saying, "OF COURSE WE'RE RIGHT AND IT DOESN'T EXIST BECAUSE IF IT DID BETHESDA WOULD CONFIRM IT. COME ON BETHESDA CONFIRM IT. CONFIRM IT CONFIRM IT CONFIRM IT. SEE IT DOESN'T EXIST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING I'M GOING TO GO RAGE AGAINST BETHESDA ON THE FORUMS NOW."

Of course, when Skyrim got announced, that crowd mysteriously vanished. Now a sketchy Italian article says something over a feature of the game that is really not important to the core gameplay, and then everyone is repeating the thing all over again. Ever thought that maybe the devs don't consider something as minor as this a big enough issue to go out of their way to confirm? Just calm down everyone, and learn some patience.

Fanatical anger is completely different from constructive criticism. Why do you instantly jump in and try to find reasons to never buy the game based on a few sketchy details? Would you seriously give up on a game because they replaced a system that was broken from the start and only the people who played mages would use? Instead of waiting for an explanation or a solution, you're already going into fury. CALM DOWN.

I mean, seriously, do you even know what you want from the game? Many of the people complaining about this, I remember, were the people who were complaining about how Oblivion had no variety and wasn't deep enough. When others defended Oblivion, saying the gameplay was better, these same people used to say that gameplay was nothing compared to story and atmosphere. So they have made the game much more varied and with a much deeper world, and you've seriously moved on from saying that what you wanted most was depth to saying whether the unimportant spellmaking is in, in all its unbalanced and broken glory, or replaced by a much better system would seriously prevent you from buying the game? Is spellmaking so important, so core to TES, that even if a much better system is made, you wouldn't buy the game because it doesn't have a "TES feel"? Why is your opinion on what is TES more valid than the developers who make the game or even anyone else? What makes you more entitled than anyone else? What makes you a "true fan" and anyone else who says otherwise a "casual"?

And once again, let me restate it. There is a line between constructive and productive criticism, and pointless anger and insulting. That line has been crossed.

Seriously? Another "stop complaining" thread?

The economy doesn't work that way. I don't pay you and then receive a product way later. I receive my product and pay you at at the same time. Bethesda should make the game in such a way that the maximum number of people want to buy it (give them their money). I don't give them my money and THEN ask them to make it how I want. I ask them how to make it how I want SO I will give them my money.

And the award for best post of the thread goes to...Khratel.

But seriously, I agree completely with this. I do believe it all boils down to the fact that people are getting impatient, annoyed and magazines aren't being completely clear with the content of the game, annoying people even more. I'm going to wait until I play the game for a decent amount and if it is truly the worst game ever made, then I'll come here and complain about every single detail. But until then, I'll just sit back and laugh at the people who complain.

I am only a little worried. Mainly that the menus will not be as conveinent on computers as they are on the consoles. That and if they do remove custom spells I will miss the flavor that a custom spell could add to a character. My real concern is what happens when I accidently hit my horse (if they or another type of mount are available) with a damage speed potion. Would one of the provided spells enable me to fix the problem without resorting to blatant cheating (console commands)? I am looking forward to a number of the new features surrounding spellcasting that are being planned (such as potentially being able to leave a trap).

I am undecided on the skills. Several of them needed fixing. I hope that the perks will allow the same skill to create diferent experinces depending on which perks are selected (such as specializing in sword perks as opposed to mace perks). Done right the skills could turn out very well (Assuming of course that the perks add enough of a focused boost that the sword themed character can't pick up and use a mace equally well).

I really hated walking up to somone in Obilvion to have them only display a rumors topic and proceed to tell me the same thing the last five people told me. So long as the extra NPCs are handled in a way that they don't stand out, I think reducing their converstational ability (if it is really reducing it) to allow for more NPCs could be a good trade. I hope they add some way to completely replace a family (such as a shopkeeper whose whole family gets caught up in a massive riot).

I am hopeful about most of the things that I have heard. Many of them sound like they could be really good if they are carried out right. My only worry is ending up with a useless, unfixable horse. Now if they screw up the addition of these new features and changes then I will be hsitant to rush out and by Elder Scrolls VI (whenever it comes).