If we don't tell them the UI svcks (especially for PC) then how will they ever know it svcks? If we and the media hadn't told Bethesda that the level scaling in Oblivion was horrendously, badly done then they would never have improved on it in Fallout 3 and Skyrim.

There's still plenty of praise, and there will be time for praise. But now is the time for criticism. Imagine if we had been able to foresee just how bad level scaling was going to be in Oblivion...it would have saved everyone a lot of time and given Bethesda a chance to correct it. Instead the game went live with it and we got a worse product then it could have been. Trust me, things like Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul and DarNified UI embarrass Bethesda. They know they went wrong. We really have to rely on modders yet again to get a decent PC UI? Ridiculous.

EDIT: To support my point, read the Shivering Isles Fan interview...even Todd admits they messed up on the PC UI. :foodndrink:

Come on, grab popcorn, join the Nurgle's family, and watch this unfold :chaos:

Thing is, we cant really critizise too much before we have even tried playing the game.
All this no spell making flame BS is just silly. IF there is no spell making and you play the game maybe you will realise that it wasnt so bad after all. Beth probably added something to make up for it.

Wait.. wasnt this thread about whining?... this is starting to turn to a Spell-making tread lol :facepalm:

also i like smileys! :foodndrink: :toughninja:

PC doesn't really matter anymore, their target audience is console. Hell, Todd doesn't even really care about PC. The UI should be different for the different systems But that'd require they do some work for PC...

yeah its lame when people shout about how they hate the fact that they are being given a choice. but what people are complaining about is the choices being taken away. so people complaining about being able to fast travel is not comprable to people complaining about not being able to create their own spells.

You can't replace spell making with something else. That's like saying I'm going to remove the swords and replace them with another weapon, but don't worry that other weapon will be better. You can't just remove something, that everyone loves, and expect us not to be critical of it.

Oh yeah, I love spending 50-60$ on a game to see if I like it. I end up hating it, but what do they care, they have my money.

If Skyrim were free, we'd have no right to complain. However, I'm going to be spending $80 on Collector's Edition, so I feel I have the RIGHT to say my peace.

You can use two different spells at the same time, you just can't combine them. Fire in both hand can be combined for a greater fire spell. You can't do that with frost and fire. It said in the GI combat update you can equip fire and ward at the same time.

So the lack of a spell maker is a deal breaker for people?

I used it in Morrowind and found it to be way over the top. It got scaled back in Oblivion, but I rarely if ever tried to use it. When I did, it produced decent spells comparable to the vanilla stuff. Better if I did just the right tweaks. Turns out though that I as a player am not well suited to play the game as a magic user. So guess who won't be terribly concerned about there being no custom spell maker at all - if that proves to be true? Yep. Me. Won't bother me in the slightest.

Besides, I game on PC, someone is bound to mod in a system to build custom spells. When they do, people who like that sort of thing will flock to it.

If all we did here was being fuzzy and warm then someone would eventually call this forum gA . Besides, the occasonial thank-you or compliment thread (yes, we had those) amidst a large pile of less positive threads really stands out and is all the more special .

At least where i come from we can play the game for a week and then return it if i dont like it. (Not online chops ofcourse)
I dunno how lucky you are with that though.

Mods are for adding unique things to the game, not to fix blatant flaws in the game. For the people who play mage characters, and I'm one of them, removing spell making is just ruining the Role Playing experience. Is is a deal breaker for me? No. I'll still buy the game. However, it's a HUGE mistake by the devs and it's not very popular with the actual fans that care about this series and where it's headed.

And Im sick of people saying their sick of people posting their opinions and concerns on the forums...that is what forums are for no? its like no one looks at bothsides of the fence sure this "simplification" and omittence of features that were present in past games would make cause for accessibility for a larger audience, but in my Opinion it stagnates what TES really is/was , you've people that want mutliplayer/co-op/deathmath/ctf generic game modes, others want trophies and anchievements and a whole myriad of other "awesome" features instead of desire the game to be something truely different from the norm drudgery.

being able to do what -you- want and playing how you desire in an awe inspering world and getting wrapped in what the game has to offer was the staple of the series. but no one seems to be interested in that anymore, they want shiny knobs and nibbles present in most other games and aside from that they could care less, it's so selfish, not that the Devs are free from scorn either I hear people harping on Todds inspirations Conan/Lord of the rings etc etc understandable really, I'd personally love a repeat of whatever occured in the minds of the devs at the time Morrowind was being made, BUT in recent articles it was stated that Skyrim has regional differences (though thier Emphasis on REAL DUNMER CITY! was a bit much). while Oblivion could have done better with its presentation I expected as much since its an IMPERIAL Run province, it has more outlying effects on other provinces than would outward have on itself.

Everyone who has a concern have them legitimately based on the whirlwind of other people repeating the exact same thing, to misinterpreting presented info, My fear isn't for Skyrim to svck or not be all it can, its the people harping for garbage (in my Opinion) that would stagnate the game, and thus far that seems to be the case.

this is worth saying twice. not that it would really be an adiquate replacement, but it would eleminate my own need to make a spell that casts soul trap and an illumination (on target) spell.

Not according to the implication in this quote:


The implication being that one can not use two different spells in each hand.

And I get that, I'm not saying spellmaking was horrible. I had tons of fun with it too... but the fact is it was, as a whole, broken.. there were too many ways to take advantage of the system.

Putting fire damage.for 10 seconds on touch, and invisibility for 12 on yourself is ridiculous... they were exploits, and they needed to be put into check.

Not to mention the leveling again...

I get that it limits options, but if you think about it, there will prolly be new things that we couldn't do in the old system that lots of people will love.

I will miss spellmaking too... but it was a necessary cut for the devs if they were trying to limit in game exploitation of the games systems.

Only quest givers can engage in dialogue with you?
As in, you can only speak to people who give you quests and not your everyday commoner?
Am i reading this right?

Edit: Never mind, theres a topic directly below this one about this subject...

I think my current signature express my point of view on this

I'd say think FO3, NV, and The Witcher of who will talk with you, and who just says stuff and continues walking.

To be honest, I don't mind the constructive criticism, or even the people that just generally complain. The people that get on my nerves are the people who say, "I'm not buying this game" because they're liars. They will buy the game no matter how bad they think it's going to be.

I would be buying the PC version, and since it will use Steam then returning it is out of the question, unfortunately.

In some threads I have found myself disagreeing with Kalarn at times. But here we are agreeing on something. We aren't enemies, we aren't friends, we are just two people with two opinions. Sometimes those opinions are starkly different, or remarkably similar. And because we are the people who will be buying the game, we have the right to complain. And if I see something I consider a gamebreaker for me, I will want Beth to hear it.

This forum isn't about making the devs feel good, its about our opinions.

Yeah no spell making sounds bad, but it's probably because:

1. It was pretty imbalanced in the previous games

2. Mages Guild no longer exists

3. All the spells will probably be a lot more distinct, unique, useful and special in their own right

4. Magic system maybe completely revamped so spell making is obsolete or very hard to implement (i.e. perhaps you gain skill with specific spells so individual spells gain power now, not just an overall thing?)

Seeing as they are equating the spells to Bioshock in how they were all unique and useful abilities (versus TES where magic was always some kind of uniform ball of damage with X status effect or X elemental effect or X ability), it probably would mean they'd have to completely re-do the spell making system to somehow have it work. Considering they are still unsure if they will allow users to combine spells on the fly (i.e. using a frost spell and fire spell at the same time) and are not sure if that would be possible to implement, spell making is even more out of the question.

It svcks because having custom spells was cool simply from a concept stand point, but seeing as it sounds like they are really overhauling the magic system so all the spells are unique and powerful in their own right instead of just being generic attacks that do different things, then I think it's a fair trade off.

I don't think Bethesda would have willingly axed the spellmaking system unless they really had a good reason not to.

well i was gonna use my custom, "torture/kill M'aiq the Liar" spell that i've used since morrowind (paralyze, fire) but i guess i won't be able to do that now...