you won't get any more 'answers' from me. sorry, i am too busy.



try eax in other games to see if it hits. i have searched the internet on this and i found only a few posts about very small hits on systems with onboard sound. if your sound card doesn't have a DSP it's pretty clear that it uses the CPU instead, right?

if you say 5% to 8%... do you mean FPS? CPU load? how many test runs? always the same save game?

i said zero, ok, i did not sit down and count beans. the OBSE plugin will of course take 1/10000000 second of CPU time on every cell change. but the rest of the time it does nothing.

Side has made yet another groundbreaking mod!! Thank you so much! Instant-Download and Endorsemant!

Its cool side777 I like your mod and Im thankfull for it, I just didnt like the attitude of Antithink. Yeah it has that slight hit on fps, I tried it on a cave with some goblins running arround with torches, and outside in some ayelid ruins. There was the slight hit Im talking about but not bad and the sound is pretty convicing so I dont mind

VERSION 0.95 is online!

the calculation of the forest effect was buggy. also added forest settings to the ini. cleaned out the dirty cell edit (waterfront shack).

have fun!

Well that certainly is a very interesting attitude you have there.

I've been nothing but supportive of every mod you've made and now because I answered in the same tone as I was replied to I'm some form of inhuman waste. As if I'm really wasting your time. What did I do? - I gave details even in the first post and when you shot back 'not enough details -read the readme' I gave more.

I know this ... I don't understand the implications of what counts as 2D versus 3D sound in this game. I also know I'm not the only one who will have that question. I know that there may be some conflcits with those other sounds mods at least in how the sound from them may be altered. I know again I'm not going to be the only one with questions about that. I know I experienced a performance hit - not saying it was the end of the world or that you ruined my game - just pointing it out. And again I wasn't alone in that.

Basically I asked salient questions about the mod in terms of how it functions and in terms of compatibility. I did not take pot shots at your mod or ask completely banol and lame questions. It would seem that if right off the bat a poster who posts a thread with the general negativity that you presented in this thread (and really the first time I've ever seen you be that negative) would be asking for a similar attitude in response. In other words that they can take what they dish out. My 'attitude' was in response to your attitude - and really what it comes down to is that only one of us can be catty, short, and snide. Certainly isn't room for two of those and you have it set out that it is going to be you. So ... who the hell defecated in your oatmeal?

I can't think of the last time I've seen such a negative attitude from a mod author to tell the truth.

I certainly can understand if the mod was more of a common type - but really there aren't that many mods like this and EAX is not a commonly discussed and understood in mods. On top of that the readme is not the most detailed document I'd ever read. It even has passages that say "i don't have the time to help on EAX issues. search the internet!" So either you know or you don't and if you don't ... then don't bother me. The readme does not talk about what happens if you mis-install.

I will be a man about it from my side and say that I apologize for the attitude - it was wrong of me to come at you with that snide comment about 'answers', but sincerely - your posts are not reading as friendly, helpful, or open at all. In fact quite the opposite.

yes it was wrong. i answered to your questions ONCE, helpful and friendly, i have even edited the OP for you, but you might not have recognized this. instead you asked almost the same questions again. i don't have much time, so i keep it short.
now what do you want me to do? shall i read the readme of YOUR sound mods to find out if they use 2D or 3D?? shall i search the internet to find the answers to YOUR questions?? shall i play the game for you?
how many times do i have to state that this mod does NOT conflict with ANY mod until YOU accept it?

or do you just WANT to see conflicts and fps hits EVERYWHERE? i have read many of your posts, it's always the same.
so... YOU call ME negative??
please don't answer on this, or i'm sure this topic will get closed because of my answer.



yes. but it's over now. we ALL stay on topic now. no discussions about anyone's attitude anymore!

i have the right to tell ANYONE to read the readme, accept that or i won't write here anymore. really, i don't have time for that.

Actually no I would prefer a world where all mods worked in seamless harmony and the forum consisted of nothing but praise and adulation of everyone's work shined to perfection. That is what I really want - if I had my choice. Unfortunately not even the vanilla game offers that, so I do what I can to report issues. I'm the poster child for http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/775917-compatibility-and-you/. I know it. I also will admit when I'm wrong - but I actually have to be wrong to go there. I don't bow to appease.

As for giving conflict reports - how should I go about it then? If my MO is always the same drab post over and over again - what should I do differently? Seriously ... I'm all ears. I cannot control how mod makers will take news of conflicts and performance issues. I cannot control how they respond to that nor try to. Some thank me, some don't.

With regard to this thread I apologized for my half - what else can I do? I tried to clean my side of the street.

As for editing your posts and the OP - I would say that it did not really answer my question which is how can I tell if a sound source is 3D based versus 2D based. Do menu noises count? Is there some other breakdown as to what constitutes what? I read over the readmes for AO and MIS and the version of MIS I use says that some of the sounds are 3D - I would imagine then that AO is mostly 2D, but how would I know that? Is there some way to tell with a tool like Audigy or something? Or how about just in Vanilla Oblivion these sounds will be 3D and these wont. I've no problem with reading a readme, but if he readme doesn't explain then what am I to do? I suppose I will accept that there are no conflicts once I understand a bit more of what I'm supposed to be hearing. Besides it is not like conflcits are end of the world - often it is just about adjustment and compromise. I totally respect what you have done as a modder. I cannot use BMS for a few reasons and a conflict is one of them. Doesn't mean that the mod is broken just that recognizing the conflcits is half the battle and part of choosing a load order.

When I was overhearing the mauraders in the fort talking to each other their dialogue seemed to echo differently - or is that just a false impression? Is that dialogue (out of direct communication mode with the player character) also affected?

The reverb I heard in there after going into menu mode - is that to be expected? You wrote it sounded as if I was underwater. I gave the info? Kinda was hoping to get some feedback as to what to expect - is that normal? Is that more intense than usual? Any settings you recommend changing?

What can I do to convince you I mean no harm?

In case you're still surprised about this... it might be that BAIN is the problem here. On default settings, it doesn't install subfolders like the data\ini folder from your mod, so people won't have the ini file. It's possible to change that, but I think not many people know about that problem.

On another note: I get annoyed by posts sometimes as well. What I do then is to remind myself that even the most annoying post is still one free bump for my thread And hey, post limit is not a bad thing either - there's no better way to promote your mod than that little subtitle "thread no. 5 already! guess this mod must be super popular, YOU should check it out too!" It's also a sign of the stability and reliability of your product mod - big thread numbers give the impression that a mod has been around for so long, it "knows what it's doing".
(Seriously though, there's nothing negative about posts in your release thread, no matter if they're annoying or not. Just chill and copy/paste your previous explanations if needed.)

Reverb should be the same unless you change cells, so it's 99% a false impression. And yes, all NPC conversations are affected.


Yes, it is. EAX preset does not change when you're going into menu.

A little tip: if you want EAX on ALL sounds, be they 2D or 3D, just force any EAX preset in your Creative Console Launcher (or whatever). Works flawlessly for me. I'm not sure if its possible with pre-XFi cards though. One downside of this trick is that reverb preset remains when you leave the game, so you need to turn it off manually in Console Launcher.

1. but... look what is written in my readme under the installation section: '- if you use BAIN: include extra folders (or copy the ini file to the ini folder manually)'

this is the first readme where i added this hint, that's why i'm really surprised! how do you explain this? i mean you obviously did not read this too?!

thank you for sharing your point of view.




i will state it again here for all the readers of this topic that might get confused:

1. this mod does NOT conflict with any other mod that doesn't do the same.
2. this mod or EAX itself does NOT hit system performance at a measurable level if you use EAX HARDWARE. (at least no one measured it before. no, subjective impression does NOT count as measurement!)

Not that I want to be involved in the drama that this thread seems to be devolving into, but I can answer this for you:

3D sounds - these are sounds whose origins are spatially *in* the game world, eg collision noises (from arrows footsteps and spells), noises and voices from creatures and NPCs (Conversation to each other, growls, screams etc), sounds that come from objects (like waterfalls), or sounds that come from sound emitters placed in the CS (like water drops, noises from ayleid wells). Also as far as I am aware, ambient sounds from the region editor like birdsong and wind are also 3D and come from a randomly decided direction (not entirely sure on this one).

2D sounds - these sounds don't really have origins in the game world, they are more "in your head", eg dialogue from the dialogue menu, menu noises (clicking, dropping sounds etc), any sound played by a script that is 2D (like the heartbeat sound that Deadly Reflex plays when you are about to cut someone in half), and background music. (EDIT - thanks for the reminder side )

I'm not sure if Oblivionfall SFX is 2D or 3D - as far as I remember it is from a sound emitter somewhere in each cell.

I hope this helped clear things up a bit for you.

no, it's not a false impression. the amount of effect changes with the distance of the sound source. but i already wrote that in the OP: 'like in real life you will hear less direct sound the more you move away from a sound source.' this should be not to hard to understand.

about your tip: does this affect music too?

Yes, but its rarely noticeable, because Oblivion's soundtrack is so smooth and without rapid transitions, except probably the battle music.


I know that, but Psymon said there were two NPCs talking to each other, and one of them had different reverberation. They were standing practically in one place and at the same distance relative to the player. But its all just guesses, haven't heard anything similar in my game.

I haven't read the readme because I haven't downloaded the mod - I'm pretty sure I don't have this EAX thingie. When you said you were surprised by this, I didn't expect that to be another tongue-in-cheek reference to people not reading the readme, I thought you were genuinely surprised that people experienced this problem, and tried to offer a solution.

Side777

Good News

So far so good for me with my onboard REALTEAK HD AUDIO (ACL883) with EAX 2.0, everything appears to be working, has I can change the different settings with tuning key and that works so far. But wil have to play around with it some more. I do not have a eax console or anything like that, I can force enviromental effects with my audio manager. But it work better if I change ini settings pretty much with this card. Yes onboard once again..

Just wish my audigy 4 would not have died once again..Xifi is on my shopping list once I get the money..

I can't push 64 sounds with my onboard, only 32..So I can't use all those sounds mods that I used to use..not with fcom at least

Corepc

yes, i am! and i thank you for trying... but i think there is no solution...

Thanks RebelMax and Filthy Spaniard. Very helpful.

Side it is not that I just don't want to take your word for it - I like to understand the why, what, and how. You made no indication that you had looked at these mods I mentioned and only that I should just take your word for it and that questions of this nature are not acceptable. But I can see you have your mind made up about me, so not much I can do there. I do know the solution though for most of the annoying things in life - roll with it. The more you resist the more it persists.

RebleMax to be clear the reverb I heard was not from the conversations I was editing myself to be brief and not rewrite the first response post. The reverb I heard was from cave ambiance lasting a good 10-15 seconds after I went into my inventory. Normally I'm used to ambient noises and such ending when you go into menu/inventory.

also I'm searching my creative apps and cannot find a force EAX setting - doesn't seem to be on the console launcher. Will look further. thanks again.

you NEED to force eax? the plugin can't turn it on?

You can force it in "entertainment mode" only, in other modes this option is unavailable. To save some words, look at the screenshot. It's the fourth button from the left
http://img212.imageshack.us/i/untitledcz6.jpg/

I always feel so weird with side777's sound mods - I've seen threads and threads of people complaining about bugs and stuff in both Better Music System and now this - but I have yet to experience a bug at all. Strange.

For those who are running Vista or Windows 7: Yes, you do need to force EAX. This was the same with Soundscraqer as it is for Side's EAX Control. To do this, you need a program called Creative ALchemy.

http://connect.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx

Download the appropriate version for your sound card. I'm not sure if this works with onboard/third party sound cards using the chipset. I use a AuzenTech X-FI Prelude, which is pretty much the same as a stock Creative X-FI, with a few more bells and whistles, but I have had no issues running Side's plugin or soundscraqer.

Basically, if you're running Vista or 7:

- Download and install ALchmey from http://bit.ly/6gftFB
- Install the EAX/Direct Sound files using ALchemy according to this: http://bit.ly/birmeE
- Install side777's plugin.

You may have to tweak some settings in the ALchemy window - the MaxVoiceCount can be raised to whatever your card supports (like CorePc's card supports 64 voices, mine does 128 (I think)), you may have to tweak these settings.

I know for a fact that this will work on any Creative branded EAX capable card under Vista or 7.

For the technical reasons behind this, check out this article: http://bit.ly/aIim58 . DirectSound, the method most older games used to produce EAX/Surround sounds was removed in Vista or higher in favor of the more open and advanced OpenAL standard. I really don't know what most of that junk means, other than it takes some extra tweaking/fiddling around with ALchemy to play older games

Thanks side for the mod, I've had problems with soundscrapper for over a year (never uninstalled it because I luv the EAX when it works). Havn't installed yet, but will test it out when I get home. Glad someone came along and finally updated the usefullness of EAX.

Nope I do not need to foce Eax with my audio manager, Still Using XP..

Plugin is working so far, has I have been checking console message going between places..Forest is working, once tress get to certain count it switch to forest effect, and Indoors is working, City are Working. Have not checked underwater or Oblivion Gates yet..will do that next..

I found the EAX button on both the game mode and entertainment mode. What seems to be missing is this 'force any EAX preset' option - that is unless you just mean have the EAX option checked.

I already got on board with ALchemy when I got this soundcard a year ago.

gyshall-
Just to be clear ... no one has mentioned a problem with the mod here yet. All I did was try and ask questions about what I should be hearing versus not hearing.

ok, maybe i had luck but here is what i did with win7:

download and install the latest version of ALchemy.
did not tweak or set anything or intall additional stuff, just:
enjoy EAX!

side777, you didn't use the ALchemy program to copy the files over at all? Basically, it drops some dummy files into the game's directory which emulates DirectSound over OpenAL.

At any rate, I forgot to say nice work on this mod. Your mods are quickly becoming as prominent in my load order as CorePc's!