Hey all, I apologize if this is a terrible question, but I've been out of the lore game for a long time and havn't posted here in awhile.

I remember reading in a few places on the lore forum in the past that Lorkhan and Mehrunes Dagon are somehow connected? I've read on one post that Lorkhan just simply did not allow Dagon take Tamriel (according to Mankar Cameron), but I also read (I tried researching this claim, but was unable to find it) that Dagon is actually a form of Lorkhan, as in what happened with Malacath but not exactly the same way.

Again I'm sorry if this is either proven long ago or has no credit to be asked, but I'd really appreciate some clearing up on this.

-Thank you in advance.

Dagon used to be Magnus, who helped Lorkhan to create Mundus. Is that what you mean?

Aww man... Why cant they just write this stuff in the UESP so that we common peasants can understand it? Mehrunes Dagon was Magnus who helped Lorkhan to create Mundus? Howdahellarewegoingtounderstandthat[censored]???

Well...reading through the lore books maybe?

Really can't make it any plainer than that. If you want the details, check out the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga. The best way to learn and understand lore is to go strait to the source, any summary is going to miss some nuance.

Awesome answers, thanks everyone for clearing it up for me.

Now you need to be uncleared.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fight-one-eating-birth-dagon

... and [Alessia] said: "And this thing I have thought of, I have named it, and I call it freedom. Which I think is just another word for Shezarr Who Goes Missing...

How are we sure the Leaper-Demon-King is Magnus?

Also: Let me get this straight... Magnus assists Lorkhan, he is discovered by Auriel and turned into Dagon. Is this before or after he stomps off and creates the sun?

We can do this, because of the Monomyth, which makes the case for common threads in the mythologies. Other books, like Varieties of Faith and the Lunar Lorkhan do so too. All are one event, warped by varied perspectives, which ties into the Lunar Lorkhan.

Inbetween the assisting and being turned into Mehrunes, the Sun being where he's been 'leaping' through (trying to escape destruction, himself).

His whole existence is full of sad irony really, he's roped into designing Mundus, sees himself as destruction (thus making him creator, and destroyer), tries to escape by leaping to other Kalpas, but in doing so is found out by Akatosh (whom, being time, he is trying to cheat), and turns him into destruction by eating him.

Wow, I appreciate this explanation profoundly.

The problem is that it is Leaper-Demon-King who assisted Greedy Man and was discovered by Alduin.
And Greedy Man is not quite Lorkhan - he starts as Lorkhan, but ends as The World-Devourer, i.e. Akatosh. And Greedy Man is separated from Shor in "Aldudagga". It should be noted, also, that Alduin, who created Dagon, is aspect of destruction hemself.

And I wonder where is Magnus position on Anu-Padomay gradient...

Plus, his whole four-armed-god-of-destruction has some pretty clear parallels to the real-world Shiva, who also happened to be a bunch of other people.

It's not like Dagon's situation is all that unusual if you think about it.

Thats the wonderful part about TES mythology. Too often fictional words are black and white - you're the good god of creation, you're the bad on of destruction. The real world is never like that though, and TES recognizes this and incorporates many alternate and coexistent possibilities.

Wait, so Dagon is also Akatosh? Doesn't make sense, he fights Akatosh in Oblivion!

Was that truly Akatosh, or Shezarr? Also, Akatosh isn't MD, but Akatosh who is Alduin to the nords is a devourer who also starts a new kalpa (or something) after eating the previous one.

How could it have been Shezarr, he's just Lorkhan isn't he?

I really don't get this. Given the non-linear craziness of the dawn era, I can sort of get Magnus being Magnus (in aetherius), him being tattered into the Magna Ge, and him being Mehrunes Dagon. But I just can't get him being akatosh (or alduin).

Akatosh fought Lorkhan a thousand times, but they are the same.

I'd say that Dagon is projection of Akatosh's nordic reflection on distorted Magnus image (possible).

Shezarr and Akatosh share the same person. This is the legacy of the Alessian Rebellion and the Right Reaching. Shezarr goes missing, because he's framed in the role of http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13830/858131-akatosh_st_large.jpg. He dosn't like this, and so he'll destroy Akatosh to be Shezarr, which is just another name for freedom.


Time will end itself. It takes the shattered-glass mind of a mortal, to see the lines where none exist.

With this Kalpa business - does that mean every thousand years or so Akatosh kills everyone? All the people? And then gives birth to them again?

Pretty much, yeah.

Problem before, Greedy Man and Leaper Demon King would hide some of the stuff from previous Kalpas, which really pissed Alduin off

Volume 8: On His Revelation at the Death of the Al-Esh
[Editor's Note: This is the oldest and most fragmentary of all the extant Pelinal texts. It is, however, likely closest to the original spoken or sung form of the Song, and therefore has great value despite its brevity. Strangely, it appears that Pelinal is present at Alessia's deathbed, although he was killed by Umaril earlier in the saga (years before Alessia's death). Some scholars believe that this fragment is not actually a part of the Song of Pelinal, but most accept its authenticity although there is still much debate as to its significance.]

"... and left you to gather sinew with my other half, who will bring light thereby to that mortal idea that brings [the Gods] great joy, that is, freedom, which even the Heavens do not truly know, [which is] why our Father, the... [Text lost]... in those first [days/spirits/swirls] before Convention... that which we echoed in our earthly madness. [Let us] now take you Up. We will [show] our true faces... [which eat] one another in amnesia each Age." - so Alessia had some show with "they":D

and

The Amulet of Kings is a soulgem of immense power. The legend says that in 1E266, Shezarr (also known as Lorkhan), the missing sibling god of the Eight Divines, transformed the dying Empress Alessia into the first of the Cyrodiilic saints, and bound her soul into the Amulet of Kings, after which the amulet became a heirloom of the Cyrodiilic Empire. It was Reman I, the founder of the second Empire, who instituted the rites of becoming a Cyrodiilic Emperor, which included the ritual geas to the Amulet of Kings. With this ritual, every Emperor is soul-linked to the amulet. In the unfortunate event of an Emperor's demise, the Elder Council is instantly made aware of what has come to pass.

But the Akatosh is believed to do so^ :J

So maybe :


Akatosh(Auriel) exists and nonexists at the same time as Shor/Alduin/Lorkhan/Shezzar/!Pelinal!(who is a mortal avatar of Lorkhan(with a hole in his chest). This is probably to the first unncontrolled Dragon Break ever when one god(Akatosh-Lorkhan split into two beings: one pro-mer, one pro-mede, in general) They're basically the same but so drastically different. Perhaps the split appeared when Pelinal - Shezzarine/Akatosh/Lorkhan etc. gave Alessia Chim-el Adabal(his heart - jewel) - personification of the Heart of Lorkham. Then the Dragon Break appeared splitting both Akatosh and Lorkham: two beings that existed from the prestart of everything from this moment. So we could think about Pelinal as an avatar of both Akatosh and Lorkhan.

I've also heard sth about "Landfall" that is connected to Lorkhan - the end of Nirn(Mundus?) but not the end of life (IIRC Loveletter from 5th Era mentions it as a Cataclysm and that the ppl went from the stars/other planet or sth.)
So Magnus is connected with Mehrunes(who wants to destroy Tamriel/Nirn/Mundus) who is connected with Lorkhan who is connected with Akatosh who is connected with Dragon Breaks. F....DRAGON BREAKS!!!!:D

OFFTOPIC: They're very handy for developers, their Lore Holes, their inconsistency and they're paradoxically a great addition for LORE formula. But they could blow mind because they couldn't be solved:D I don't like this kind of puzzles:D Imma not Cartesian/Plato/Aristotle nor any philosophical genius. But this way of thinking and digging in TES LORE is kinda addictive and...I like it:d NEW TESV books PLZ, would you kindly?xD


BTW. Magnus is Mehrunes? Probably : due to the Mythic Dawn standard's emblem(rising sun - perhaps only a metaphore of rising power)
But I also heard that Magnus (Magna sth or whatever) is the one who is Sun that isn't in Mundus(unlike Aedras) and Dagon was Daedra from the start. This info (Magnus-Dagon) isn't from Mancar? If so it could be unreliablesource of info.

Can sb post some source/info about Meridia being a daughter of Magnus? I know that she's related to Magnus(stars/Sun) and one of the major gods cultivated along with Magnus AND Mehrunes(this maybe a minor cult) by Ayleids but I don't know the source of info about her origins.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/imperial-census-daedra-lords.