Simple Design Issues and Failures

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:21 am

Dear Bethesda,

With the current generation of console and the current market on which first person genre games exist, there have been few games to date that have matched the caliber of the elder scrolls in terms of being immersible. This being said, I was playing Battlefield 3 before Skyrim came out and noticed a couple of ideas that were executed well within that game. Let us remember these are completely different games, but the idea is the same: putting the player in the shoes of the character.

One idea that was well executed in the latest addition to the Battlefield franchise was the ability to see your legs. (DICE has been known to do this, as it only makes sense when you're in another character's shoes). My proposal to you Todd Howard, whoever is in charge of these changes, is that you implement the ability to see your character's feet while in first person, not third because it can already be done. So what this means is that you take the time to move the camera back to the center of the chest (I understand its not THAT simple, but you can't tell me it can't be done), instead of making me feel like a floating ghost with 2 arms with swords in hand.

Second, what about prone? I'm totally kidding about that. But another thing that has really bugged me about third person are the dual wielding animations. They're good, until I run or sheathe. I 'm sure you've already received multiple complaints about this issue already, I'm just here to shed even more light on the issue. Don't forget to implement a sprint AND a jump at the same time, that way sprinting doesn't feel so stiff, something else Battlefield did really well: sprinting. Oh and one more thing, animate the character moving leavers, it bugs me to see my character magically move the leaver after pressing X (PS3), almost like Oblivion's caliber all over again, which we all know the team at Bethesda has moved WAY past that. Also, one more thing to consider, dual wield blocking. I know it would make dual wielding almost impervious, but balance it somehow. OR add an evasion move, like Dark Souls did.


That being said, if any of the community has any design requests or issues such as these that should be fixed, comment and post 'em below. Lets get Bethesda to notice this one mates.
User avatar
Danial Zachery
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:41 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:01 am

Too much work, too many resources consumed animating/modelling all armours in first person in addition to third person.
It is TES, it is Bethesda game, what else did you expect?
User avatar
Siidney
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:54 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:44 pm

Too much work, too many resources consumed animating/modelling all armours in first person in addition to third person.
It is TES, it is Bethesda game, what else did you expect?



There's already a mod that solved the sprinting animation for dual wielding that didn't require months of work. I'm guessing a team of people that MADE the game could do it within weeks.
User avatar
Pixie
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:50 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:07 pm

I don't agree with your whole philosophy that they're design flaws or failures. Seeing your legs doesn't make or break a game. Can you honestly tell me you spend the majority of your time in Battlefield 3 looking down at your legs? Or, are you more focused on the visuals and the enemies ahead of you, rather than a 2 second glimpse at your legs? All I'm reading here are personal wishes and preferences that seem to make and break your game, yet you seem keen on claiming them as design flaws that shatter the experience for everybody.

Continuing on, the concept of dual-wield blocking has been discussed to death, albeit parry being more suitable for a dual-wielding swordsman, it's an issue with the controls of consoles. Dual-wielding animations themselves are indeed pretty lame, i'll agree with you on that. But don't expect a fix by Bethesda. In the future, I can only hope Bethesda references fighting styles by experts that know about Scandinavian/Nordic (whatever) fighting styles and weapons, opposed to relying on one of their studio employees that just so happens to perform martial arts. Bethesda, please get your kung-fu/asian inspired fighting styles out of my Skyrim - or the next Elder Scrolls, thank you.
User avatar
Jonathan Windmon
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:23 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:04 am

I don't agree with your whole philosophy that they're design flaws or failures. Seeing your legs doesn't make or break a game. Can you honestly tell me you spend the majority of your time in Battlefield 3 looking down at your legs? Or, are you more focused on the visuals and the enemies ahead of you, rather than a 2 second glimpse at your legs? All I'm reading here are personal wishes and preferences that seem to make and break your game, yet you seem keen on claiming them as design flaws that shatter the experience for everybody.

Continuing on, the concept of dual-wield blocking has been discussed to death, albeit parry being more suitable for a dual-wielding swordsman, it's an issue with the controls of consoles. Dual-wielding animations themselves are indeed pretty lame, i'll agree with you on that. But don't expect a fix by Bethesda. In the future, I can only hope Bethesda references fighting styles by experts that know about Scandinavian/Nordic (whatever) fighting styles and weapons, opposed to relying on one of their studio employees that just so happens to perform martial arts. Bethesda, please get your kung-fu/asian inspired fighting styles out of my Skyrim - or the next Elder Scrolls, thank you.


I think they are design failures. You may consider them preferences, but if I'm playing as a character (or even living as myself) I can see my entire body plus my legs, not just my hands floating. You can't say Bethesda isn't going for immersion, because it is. Its got thick lustrous worlds full of things to do, and this simple design error could have me feeling more "in control" of being my character, rather than just hands floating magically. The game was meant to be played first person, honestly, so why not just grant to us players who want it? In the end, you'll see, that it will make a difference.
User avatar
Samantha Mitchell
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:33 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:18 pm

You can also see your legs quite nicely in the third person view.
User avatar
Kat Ives
 
Posts: 3408
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:11 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:07 am

To the OP: I understand what you're saying somewhat but asking Bethesda to do visual innovations like Cryteck, EA Digital Illusions CE or even Unreal Engine3, is asking too much really. Jeez, Bethesda didn't even include godrays. Bethesda priorities are obviously somewhere else. Their major preoccupation is creating a cohesive vast world that works seamlessly.
User avatar
Amy Siebenhaar
 
Posts: 3426
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:51 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:02 am

I don't agree with your whole philosophy that they're design flaws or failures. Seeing your legs doesn't make or break a game. Can you honestly tell me you spend the majority of your time in Battlefield 3 looking down at your legs?

Can you honestly say you spent that much time looking at your [censored] (or what ever you got there)? But it helps to know its there, right?

To the OP: I understand what you're saying somewhat but asking Bethesda to do visual innovations like Cryteck, EA Digital Illusions CE or even Unreal Engine3, is asking too much really. Jeez, Bethesda didn't even include godrays. Bethesda priorities are obviously somewhere else. Their major preoccupation is creating a cohesive vast world that works seamlessly.

They could use Unreal Engine 3 for their game, that would be a move in the right direction.
User avatar
lucile davignon
 
Posts: 3375
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:40 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:04 am

Here we go with the feet again.
I am more preoccupied with the daggers that go through legs when you character sneaks, or the awkward warping of some left arms (see female Ebony armor), the very early access of decent armor and weapons, the not-so-coherent story lie from guild to guild, characters running with bows looking like the hunchback of Notre Dame, broken quests, etc... and all you got is 1st person feet?
User avatar
Luis Longoria
 
Posts: 3323
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:21 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:43 pm

I don't agree with your whole philosophy that they're design flaws or failures. Seeing your legs doesn't make or break a game. Can you honestly tell me you spend the majority of your time in Battlefield 3 looking down at your legs?


I spend most of my time in BF on my back looking at the sky and bleeding.
User avatar
vanuza
 
Posts: 3522
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:14 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:56 am

Here we go with the feet again.
I am more preoccupied with the daggers that go through legs when you character sneaks, or the awkward warping of some left arms (see female Ebony armor), the very early access of decent armor and weapons, the not-so-coherent story lie from guild to guild, characters running with bows looking like the hunchback of Notre Dame, broken quests, etc... and all you got is 1st person feet?



So your argument is that by re-writting multiple story lines, hiding weapons and armor better is easier than just pushing the camera back on the character? This is something that is easy to fix, your requests vary.
User avatar
Charlotte Buckley
 
Posts: 3532
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:29 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:31 am

To the OP: I understand what you're saying somewhat but asking Bethesda to do visual innovations like Cryteck, EA Digital Illusions CE or even Unreal Engine3, is asking too much really. Jeez, Bethesda didn't even include godrays. Bethesda priorities are obviously somewhere else. Their major preoccupation is creating a cohesive vast world that works seamlessly.

THIS! This is an issue only mods can fix.
User avatar
Charity Hughes
 
Posts: 3408
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:22 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:10 am

THIS! This is an issue only mods can fix.


And I'm sure in the future mods will fix a lot of leftover things, like maybe even some of the things I've requested be done, BUT I'm not a PC user sadly :(
User avatar
(G-yen)
 
Posts: 3385
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:10 pm

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:58 am

No legs, my two swords framing the left and right of my screen already takes up more screen space than I like (fov 90), the less useless things clogging my view the better.

Agreeded on sprint jumps.

Animated levers simply waste my time forcing me to watch some canned animation. I can bear with chopping wood or mining because it's gameplay balance, resources for time, but not to open some door. Particularly when I'm trying to sneak pass guards in thieves guild missions which I role-play been a non-killing thief.
User avatar
Khamaji Taylor
 
Posts: 3437
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:15 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:44 pm

No legs, my two swords framing the left and right of my screen already takes up more screen space than I like (fov 90), the less useless things clogging my view the better.

Agreeded on sprint jumps.

Animated levers simply waste my time forcing me to watch some canned animation. I can bear with chopping wood or mining because it's gameplay balance, resources for time, but not to open some door. Particularly when I'm trying to sneak pass guards in thieves guild missions which I role-play been a non-killing thief.



Okay, so no lever animation because I can see how that would be cumbersome when running. I play as an assassin, so anyone I see, dies, regardless if its a guard. (When I'm sneaking in a dungeon that is). And I dual wield so I know what you mean, but legs would not deter combat, unless you're fighting skeevers or something.
User avatar
Alexandra walker
 
Posts: 3441
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:50 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:38 pm

There's already a mod that solved the sprinting animation for dual wielding that didn't require months of work. I'm guessing a team of people that MADE the game could do it within weeks.

One problem with see your legs might be robes who would look weird then looking down while running.
User avatar
Tom Flanagan
 
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:51 am

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:02 pm

One problem with see your legs might be robes who would look weird then looking down while running.



this is true, but now the question becomes, how many people play in robes?
User avatar
Robert Devlin
 
Posts: 3521
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:19 pm


Return to V - Skyrim