Baldur's gate has ALWAYS been a more complex RPG than any Elder Scrolls game. So had D&D and Fallout 1 and 2 and WoW and many others. The point of TES isn't to be complex, it's to be enjoyable. That's not changing, end of story.

(And Complexity doesn't equal enjoy ability or a good game or depth in any caliber)

More armors, more armor variety, more NPCs.


Clearly dumbing down :banghead:


I'm sorry but you RPG nerds are getting very annoying.

Lets see... things I loved about past TES games that no longer seem present in Skyrim:

Lots of stats, attributes, skills etc. (if I want perks, i'll play COD)
Deciding who my character is at the start of the game through choices and stats.
Being able to make a character look how I want them to look by mixing and match armour and clothing.
Being able to increase running speed.
Feeling lost in an unfamiliar world without high-detail maps, markers, etc. telling me where to go.
Being able to play in first-person without randomly being pulled into third-person against my will.
Lots of factions to join.
Loads of dialogue options.
...the list goes on and on.



I think what a lot of people want is simply the style of gameplay from Morrowind, not the exact same game over and over again. Considering the vast amount of lore the developers have to play around with, there's really no reason why they couldn't do this while still making a game that seems really new and fresh. Also, it's not like we see TES games once a year, is it? :confused: It's more like every 4-5 years... during which time significant technological improvements occur.

Impressionist.

How are shouts casual, they are just 20 extra spells that require hard work to get,have incredible effects, and are balanced with cooldowns :rofl:


You hardcoe RPG guys are a comedy act i swer :rofl:

Also, keep in mind, Oblivion might have had a boring landscape with very few locations that were unique, but we get that back in Skyrim. I'm sure there won't be 2 dungeons like Bleak Falls Barrow. And I'm sure you'll be able to tell where you are just by looking around and thinking a bit, as opposed to Oblivion where you HAD to use the map. You could do that in Morrowind too. What? a return to a past game? blasphemy! this is dumbing down! they're taking element from both games! I can't take it anymore!

/sarcasm

seriously, the actual fun in Morrowind was the unique locations and the puzzles. the rest was boring as [censored]. Oblivion got the rest right, but not those. seems like Skyrim aims to have ALL of them.

They left out the most important part though! A single armor slot! they must be dumbing down the game! :flame:

I'm glad Bethesda is trying new stuff, because I'm open-minded enough to give it a shot before I say it's ruining the series. And like I said before, if Skyrim is a total mistake, I have faith that Bethesda will try to fix it with Elder Scrolls VI. I understand, somewhat, your point of view, but I also think it's better to give new stuff a shot than playing it safe without changing anything.

If this is what "simplifying" is all about then i'm behind it all the way. Give me more NPC's on screen, more armor sets, better looking armor, activities like woodcutting, mining, smithing and cooking. Give me more character creation stuff like scars, tattoos, and beards. Give me 280+ perks if you want to remove a few skills, so I can truly define each and every character along with the removal of restrictive classes and attributes. I am for each and every change, so if that means it's "streamlined", then it's a great thing happening to TES.

Don't tell me what to do.

The problem is that the perk system is mostly just a replacement of the attribute system. Yeah you might have a few gems in there but it will mosty just be modifier garbage. Oh well. As long as you can cherry pick what you want it will be a semi usable system.

When you only have 5, a single slot is a fifth of your armour options, which makes it seem rather more significant, I think, as opposed to, say, if they took away only belts from Morrowind to Oblivion.

Arcanum is probably the closest thing to pure rpg, but otherwise, it only really exists in Pen & Paper.

If one isn't interested in visual combat, action, or sandbox elements, than one shouldn't really be playing role playing video games, because the ultimate form of roleplaying is pen and paper, because there's unlimited options, and everything is driven by and limited by character skill. It is impossible to simulate this on any device other than the human brain.





True, when bethesda sat down to make TES they didn't pick the genre first and then build after that, they simple made the game, looked at what it had become and saw that what they had was probably an rpg.

Perfectly put. This game adds quite a bit of stuff over Oblivion.

From what I can tell the perk system sounds like it'll take customization to a new level. It sounds like it'll have the things like in Oblivion where archers could zoom in a bit, where armorer's could use hammers longer, etc. etc.

One reason I believe to be why Bethesda are making their games simpler is because increased accessibility means more people will play it, meaning increased profit.

Also, not everyone has the time to put alot of time into games. What about if you have a busy social life or work schedule? Does that mean you shouldn't be able to still play the game and be decent at it solely because you don't have the time to crack the steep learning curve and put 100% effort into the game? That's stupid. There's nothing wrong with making a game easier or more streamlined as long as it maintains its core elements, which Skyrim has, as aforementioned.

Well of course i'm going to give it a shot. Skyrim is my most anticipated game of 2011 and nothing will change that.

I hope I am wrong about all the streamlining and dumbing down, I really do. The problem is, it's hard to ignore and have blind faith in Bethesda when i've seen so many games completely ruined by excessive streamlining and accessibility. Who knows. Maybe if Fable fans were was vocal as Bethesda fans are about such things, Lionhead would have an awesome RPG franchise on their hands.

Also: Dragonshouts, smithing, effecting local economies, marriage, enchanting as a skill, perk trees, radiant story, body scaling, beards, scars, sprinting, bar brawls, zone-based level scaling, dual wielding, and a leveling system that, in theory, prevents, or at least highly discourages, mastering every single skill. But they removed some skills, ditched classes and attributes, and combined some armor slots. So dumbed down from Oblivion.

As I've said, core elements tend to be vague for a reason...

These are not core elements, these are specifics. Of course you're not going to be happy with it because you have these pe-determined requirements whether it is based on the series or not...

Yes but at what detail? Sure it has added things but Bethesda has pretty much only focused on what you can't do rather than giving any info on what supposedly has been added. Perfect example being side jobs - is this just a simple item grind akin to the attribute grind? These just seem like a different means to an end for crafting materials with no real value other than a bland and boring time sink. Hopefully more info will prove this wrong but my judgement so far is that they are trying to turn it into some kind of perverted single player social network game.

Just remember that Fable isn't aiming for the same goal at all though. They're not aiming for a complete game. They want to introduce people to RPGs

Because "perverted single player social network games" have epic dragon gods tryng to eat the world...
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Yes, three facepalms were necessary as one would not suffice.

You are attacking from a story based point of view and I never touched on that. My main argument is over the mechanics of gameplay. Rather than provide a clear argument (becuase you can't) against my statement you resort to using an animation. Run along elsewhere.

Yes, and making the greatest profit is the MOST important thing. That is not what I feel is the MAIN thing that should motivate a gaming company (or any company, for that matter).



I addressed this way back on page 5 of this thread: