True Enclave members would have left to go East before the fall of Navarro hence them sending ED-E back to Navarro. I would think they had to have left more then just a garrison to look after Navarro. Its a well established base and they seem to think it would still be there after 30 years or so. I do agree with you that FO3 saved the Enclave (not happy about it) but it did. I just hope not to see them as a large super faction again. Smaller remnants that we can deal with and join would be awesome.

Still the numbers don't add up. FO2 there were not that many Enclave. A couple vertibirds, One mainland base and the Oil rig. Oil rig blows up kill most of the Enclave in one shot. Ones at Navarro are ordered to the East as we learned in FO3 but not all of them went seeing as DC Enclave sent ED-E back to Navarro. New Vegas supports that much of the Enclave did die on the rig and many others gave up and tried to blend into NCR. BoS and NCR hunted many down. So how did the Enclave in DC end up with thounsands of troops and seemingly endless amounts of vertibirds to throw at Optimus prime in just 30 years?

It lacks the urgency factor, the metaphorical ticking bomb. "Find the man who shot you" is nice but not as powerful as "find the man who shot you and stop him before he does a terrible thing".

It looks like lot of people think the ability to side with a faction in NV makes it a better Rpg than FO3, but I disagree on the basis that you still had choices in the actions you could take in FO3 making it perfectly a RPG title as well. I just think NV trys to do too much on some aspects and not enough on others. I for one thought the way reputation & karma was handled in the game was lacking in reality & rather superficial.

No that part I disliked, your only impact came at the endgame. Don't get me wrong I wasn't expecting a rapidly changing world with every step I took but a few things here and there would have been nice, especially regarding Helios One which felt like a powerful moment, you decide who gets all this power. For that to be immediately forgotten makes me sad

Agreed. There were quite a few places and quests, which would have had an immediate effect.
Helios One is one, but Nelson is another one. I'd expect the NCR to set some guards on that town, but all that happens is your invasion force standing around like they got no clue what to do now.

What i really liked about f3 is when things change.

It's stuff like that that makes NV sometimes feel a bit half-assed. Fallout 3 was full-assed, but the ass wasn't as well rounded as the NV ass...

That anology just went horribly wrong... :blink:

It's stuff like that that makes NV sometimes feel a bit half-assed. Fallout 3 was full-assed, but the ass wasn't as well rounded as the NV ass...

That anology just went horribly wrong... :blink:

I was utterly disappointed in New Vegas, I didn't care who the checkered guy was since a post apocalyptic wasteland is full of ***** who will shoot you on sight, so the main quest felt I shouldn't even be involved. Maybe the fallout series just isn't for me, I keep expecting something like the movie 'The Road' or 'S.T.A.L.K.E.R'. The good/evil karma system keeping track of you're ruthlessness in a desperate fight for you're own survival against raiders, slavers and general horrific mutants. But it didn't take itself seriously IMO and walking down that Vegas strip was just plain dumb, and was there actually a somewhat hard moral choice in this one? I cant remember.

and was there actually a somewhat hard moral choice in this one? I cant remember.

Realistically, for the streetlights to still be working after 200 years, a great number of variables have to be taken into account. The circuit has to be intact, from the point the electricity originates, all the way to the load, or the light on the street. Most utility power originates at a power generator station, like Hoover Dam which essentially changes mechanical power (moving water) into electrical power. High voltage (usually 100,000 to 200,000 volts) lines distribute the power from the generator station to various substations out in the land.

The reason they use high voltage is that wires can only take so much heat before they degrade. I would have to explain Ohm's Law to really get into it, but in a nutshell, using higher voltage will lower the amperage, and amps cause heat. This allows them to use smaller gauge wires to transmit power over large distances. Copper is expensive, so it makes it cheaper for them. Those substations use transformers to lower the high voltage to say 13,500, or 4160 volts, and then distribute the power to yet more substations which lower the voltage again to a manageable level, until it reaches the streets, and buildings, and businesses (usually at 120/240 volts). Some large businesses have their own substations.

All along this line, the copper wire needs to be intact. The circuit needs to be complete. And were talking about 3 phase power here too, so that means there are 3 wires all along that line, so all 3 need to be intact. If there is a problem any where along this circuit, the power will cease to flow. They require full time maintenance to keep them running, because one bad electrical connection anywhere along the circuit could cause the entire grid to fail, and whole cities, or neighborhoods would go dark. A loose screw on a connection will generate heat (the electricity will arc, and amperage will rise) and ultimately, even if it takes years, will fail. Sometimes violently. In 200 years, you could expect to find maintenance problems all over the place. Everywhere, really.

If the main power grid goes down, you would have to find a generator to create electrical power, and then you're talking having power in very localized areas, like a building, or a factory.

So, the Great War happens, and nuclear warheads rain from the sky. The odds of the power grid surviving that alone are astronomically bad. The lines only need to be cut in one place, and everything on the load side of that goes dark. Probably forever. How would you fix a high voltage line 50 feet in the air without the proper equipment, and knowledge? How would you even know where the circuit went down? The problem could be hundreds of miles away. The power lines I've seen in Fallout would require wholesale replacement, over miles.

When I look at electricity in Fallout, I have to suspend my disbelief, and remember it's a game. I just have to assume there's some atompunk "Tesla" science at work that they never explain, because it just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. Who is going around replacing all those lightbulbs?

Realistically, all those little fusion generators they have hooked up to the streetlights in the game would be incredibly valuable. They wouldn't be sitting there powering some lonely streetlight. People would be killing each other to get them. Everything would be dark, save for a few places, where some very talented and almost unbelievably resourceful people existed.

I was utterly disappointed in New Vegas, I didn't care who the checkered guy was since a post apocalyptic wasteland is full of ***** who will shoot you on sight, so the main quest felt I shouldn't even be involved

You are in the world of Fallout now, prepare to be amazed.

Same with Broken steel in one of my playthroughs i injected FEV and i saw how most of the places got all those sick people.

The Enclave lives! In Chicago... with the Tactics BoS

Only we have better looking armor ;p

But I disagree with the point about motivation to some extent.

Mostly because; in each game your motivation was either do this or people will die.

Fallout 1 got you as errand boy to a one man army fighting a anti-hero scientist who wanted to purge the old world and create a new world for Super Mutants.

Fallout 2 you were once again an errand boy and then having to fight off the remenats of the United States to ultimately to save your village after they sent you off alone with little supplies. (What...one Healing powder and a spear? A spear, which you must obtain by side quests.)

Fallout 3..not going to go there.

Fallout Tactics you are a solider for the Mid-Western BoS to fighting a full scale war against robots.


And New Vegas? Well someone shot you twice in the head. So timez for revengez!

Mostly motivation in the Fallout series has been that of simple things. From errand boyship to war to revenge.

Did you get the point of this thread? It was only addressing New Vegas. :/ I'm aware that the motivation in the others were better.

INSTRUCTIONS

Deliver the package to at the north entrance of the New Vegas Strip, by way of Freeside. An agent of the recipient will meet you at the checkpoint, take possession of the package, and pay for the delivery. Bring the payment to Johnson Nash at the Mojave Express agency in Primm.

Bonus on completion: 250 caps.

MANIFEST

This package contains:

One (1) Oversized Poker Chip, composed of Platinum

CONTRACT PENALTIES

You are an authorized agent of the Mojave Express Package until delivery is complete and payment has been processed, contractually obligated to complete this transaction and materially responsible for any malfeasance or loss. Failure to deliver the proper recipient may result in forfeiture of your advance and bonus, criminal charges, and/or pursuit by mercenary reclamation teams. The Mojave Express is not responsible for any injury or loss of life you experience as a result of said reclamation efforts.

I had read that, but really worst case scenario I use vats and pump the rest of my ammo into a guy. You can never be 'scared' in a game, you can however be motivated and that just doesn't do it.