Well if you haven't guessed already this will be a thread addressing my issues with New Vegas and explaining why I was so utterly disappointed. Still haven't left? Alright then to start off I'd like to say I have played every Fallout game with the exception of Brotherhood of Steel (I believe that is the name) and can easily say my favorites were Fallout 3, and Fallout 2. In that order. I am not some Call of Duty craving kid who only wants action out of a game either.

With that aside I think the major issue I had with New Vegas was all in the story. There was so much potential for this game. The Fallout 3/Oblivion engine is perfect in my opinion. After playing with it so much, now whenever I play a game not using that engine I think, 'How much cooler would this be if it had the same mechanics as Fallout 3.' In other words this company had the foundation already set. They just needed good atmosphere and a good story. Hell even if they barley added any new weapons or armour (I'm Canadian lol, that's why there's our in armour) I still would have loved it. But that didn't work out. Not at all.

The two largest story flaws lay in the poor sense of motivation and the sheer loss of an epic scale. To address the second, in most Fallout games you felt like you were a normal person thrown into this epic fight. Wether you chose the good or evil spectrum you felt big implications. Even though the combat may have been horrid running into battle with the BH:OS to liberate Project Purity from the Enclave felt, EPIC. Looking for the Purification chip from Fallout 1 was tense, as you knew you had little time to work with. New Vegas killed it. You never feel like anything you do has a large scale implication, and you certainly never feel heroic. It's always working as an agent, recruiting, preparing ect. When you finally fight the Battle of Hoover Dam you get a fight packed full of potential... epicness to put it simply. But it never follows through, it's easy, there are relatively few troops at any one point, (Nine Legion Soldiers On Screen if you're lucky) and while this beast of a battle unveils you are sent off to preform mundane tasks like switching on a computer for Mr. House way off to the side of the real fight. Even the boss fight can be so ridiculously dismissed with some barter skill, like one second it's this devoted tank of a guy fighting for what he believes then you pull a hat trick of snappy money related comments and he's suddenly like 'Oh yeah, I'll just turn invulnerable and cower in this tent while the war suddenly ends.' I mean honestly? Four sentences of common sense ends a long stretch of ruthless warfare? In what world!? That in itself ruined the whole feeling of a last resort war for me. And to wrap this section up, when you finish the game nearly no matter which way you go about doing it you feel like you were working for the wrong side. They either were asses to begin with or they went mad with power. Sweet.

The other major issue which I previously mentioned is kind of a tie in, but I will address it separately. In Fallout 3 you felt the urge to press on and look for your Dad, all the while you did any odd job you could for respect among the people and a bit of money for medicine. In new Vegas reputation makes committing crimes so easy and the lack of karma really affecting [censored] all I don't feel the need to do any side quests. Hell I'm sure some of the side quests were great, but I never felt driven to complete them... in any way. Talk about not feeling motivated, the whole prologue with hunting Benny transitioned so abruptley into you fighting the people's war that it wasn't even laughable. You didn't feel like you belonged in this war, you just got plunked in via a recruitment mission, leaving really no reason to ambitiously chase after victory.

That more or less summarizes the game's story and dialogue errors in my opinion. Layer on top of that a buggy as hell system, short main story, less perks, more limitation of what your character can become, and of course... the lack of 3Dog (Only jokes, but seriously 3Dog was damn awesome!) and you get a sub par game. The poor combat and a few other mechanics were dismissible in Fallout 3 because nothing like that matters when you're so svcked into the game. But when you take that factor away... you get Fallout New Vegas.

Before I go I wanna say though I was very critical in this message, it's to get my point across. I love the series and am writing this only out of sheer disappointment. I may have seemed a little prejudiced but unfortunately I'm speaking the truth. How do you guys sit on this opinion? I'd appreciate votes in the poll.

The way the game starts, I felt like I was playing "Kill Bill" more than "Fallout"

I admit, I only red like 4 random sentences in your post, its 1am and I'm tired. But I agree entirely with; you had NO motivation to find the guy who shot you. I started the game, and honestly the way they set it up, I had absolutely 0 interest in the main story. The game would have had a far been initial impact story-wise if they had a really good hook. They do have a good hook, but only once your really far into the story, but then its not a hook is it? You have to play in to understand the things that would have hooked you in the first place... Even having a guy inform you something like, "You must find who shot you OR WE WILL ALL DIE!!!!" would have been a good hook. If you like the people, you don't want them to die, you have motivation to chase after your shooter and stop him, beside your own personal reasons. See Obsidian, that wasn't so hard was it?

You played all Fallout games and yet 3 was your favorite? Stopped reading there.

EDIT- If you think the gamebryo engine in the hands of Bethesda is "perfect" then your standards must lie in Satan's wine cellar.

Well thanks, I like to hear that I'm not the only one who wasn't too pleased with this game. Which really svcks, because this game is one of the few video games I've ever really gotten excited for. I just couldn't foresee any possible way they could screw the game up, and guess what... they did, and it was all because of the story and the writing. No hook (as you said) = no initial interest. But I trekked on, to find nothing more than some shallow-story factions that want nothing more than to pay random strangers to complete repetitive missions.

EDIT - @Madvilian: I will admit I didn't catch this game at the start of it all. I first picked up Tactics, which I wasn't a huge fan of but from there I continued to play the others. I nearly forgot about the series as a whole and two years later Fallout 3 comes out, which to this day is my favorite game ever. I see a lot of Fallout veterans talking about how terrible Fallout 3 is for some reason or another. I get that some role play aspects were cut down on, but honestly I don't see it. Nostalgia maybe? I love the first Fallout but number three takes the cake. It's in my eyes a significant improvement in many, many ways. And as for the Gamebryo engine, yeah It's not perfect, but it's the best out there for the kind of game I like. It simulates a world. That's the key. In an average RPG you'll reach a store and you'll buy/sell items but the shopkeeper doesn't physically have the items stored somewhere. In the event of a game like Fable you can control your world a bit more, for example you can kill anyone. Well that's a step up, but it's still just killing an enemy, sure they'll drop some money but you can't physically loot there body, there's no real dynamic interaction. People don't actually DO stuff in their daily lives. I may be bad at explaining this but for someone who doesn't care if the graphics or presentation aren't top notch Gamebryo is the best engine yet.

Ehh, you raise some interesting points, but in regards to difference in story, I'm one of the members who don't have a problem with Fallout 3, in fact I love it, but I can't bring myself to play it lately, not because it's bad, but because the game itself is far more interesting, not to mention that I dislike how F3 has absolutely no streetlights and yet you see generators. I don't know, I try not to curse, but honestly, between the two games, Fallout 3 feels ass backwards in terms of trying to progress as humans. Plus it always drives me insane that Project Purity requires the G.E.C.K. and yet we can't use the seeds and holotapes and Et Cetera to help others. I don't know, I just felt annoyed they didnt use the whole G.E.C.K.
Also, I dislike how there was alot of Pre-War tech in F3, and yet no one seemed to use it where as in Vegas there are lights and glitz (granted though Vegas had a Pre-War genius to re-educate them).

Street lights require a functioning society. They have to be powered and maintained. Above all, someone has to take responsibility for them. Who, in this wrecked world where everyone is living on the edge and where danger lurks around every corner, is going to step up and say "You know what, I'm going to go round and fix all the street lights!"? Fallout 3 D.C. is a world where the very food that you eat and the water you drink is injurious to your health. It is a thinly-populated region, probably because most infants are dying young. Humans are battling to survive against creatures that are better adapted to these conditions than they are. They are reduced to living in fortified settlements, with only a few of the hardiest souls going out to forage and scavenge. Street lights are not going to be a priority!

Okay, but how do you explain the random street light in Vegas still humming all these time? and don't give me that 'the bombs' crap. Because honestly, I think seeing the occassional street light humming after 200 years enhances that 'lost era' feel.

If you had said mission breaking glitches I may have agreed to a point.

This especially the non fo3 hate, and I'm one of those that played the originals first.

++++

The only disapointment I had ( well the biggy anyway ), was that the ending was too combat focused.
Many quests felt like that imo, it may have been to appeal to more fps crowds.
If you work out a way to avoid PO people, and a smart intelligent tap dance on a pin head way to resolve something.
You should not get pigeon holed into a linear fight that's straight out of the water purifer MQ in the previous game.

New Vegas does have a functioning society. Life is clearly not as much of a struggle in the Mojave as it is in DC. And what do you mean "the bombs crap"? Do you seriously think a city that's been hit by a hydrogen bomb is going to have functioning street lights?

Firstly why is this in general section if it's "SPOILERS GALORE"?

You do bring up some intersting points. (The gamebryo is not perfect, at all)

You are right about the motivation though. If I didn't know it was the main quest I doubt I would have gone after benny at all.

You really can't make that argument. Do you expect me to believe all streetlights can fail and never work again if the bombs drop, and yet lights inside buildings in downtown DC work spot on? Thats Insane Troll Logic, or, borderline anyway. I'd expect a random street light or two to still work. Also, I dont mean the lights of The Strip, I mean, if you explore the outskirts of Vegas proper, you see random little streetlights quietly humming along.

People live in buildings, so they have an incentive to try to ge tthe lights working. There is no incentive for anyone to try and get street lights working in DC. In fact, given that the place is overrun with super mutants and other nasties, they have an incentive to ensure they are not operational!

But there are so many unoccupied buildings in FO3 with their lights on...what's with that?

Thats a funny joke there. Wait you're serious? Allow me to laugh harder

Seriously, apart from Megaton and Rivet City, you encounter just about no one. Look at the various dumpy buildings in the ruins that are unoccupied buildings in F3, it's very clear no one has occupied those buildings in ages, and yet there are lights. It's a lack of realism in my book. If you expect me to believe EMP can force streetlights to die and yet interior lights are magically safe from EMP blasts. I'll smack you with a very large stick.

They are only unoccupied when you happen to visit them.

But seriously, it's because if every building were pitch dark everyone would be complaining. Sometimes gameplay considerations have to take precedence.

There are many scavengers in D.C., enough to keep caravans supplied. Who is to say they have not worked on the lights in selected buildings, ones that have enough loot to make it worthwhile? Use a bit of imagination, everything does not have to be spelled out.

I have to agree with the "lack of motivation" part, like Yahtzee said in his review (more or less) "People assumed i wanted to track down the guy who shot me in the head, but to me the fact that he shot me in the head was an excellent reason to not go after him!". Fallout 3 had a more personal take on the story, which give better motivation. That, and the emptiness of Mojave are really my only complaints about New Vegas. Oh, and pointless filler quests. I'd prefer pointless filler dungeons

Realistically, for the streetlights to still be working after 200 years, a great number of variables have to be taken into account. The circuit has to be intact, from the point the electricity originates, all the way to the load, or the light on the street. Most utility power originates at a power generator station, like Hoover Dam which essentially changes mechanical power (moving water) into electrical power. High voltage (usually 100,000 to 200,000 volts) lines distribute the power from the generator station to various substations out in the land.

The reason they use high voltage is that wires can only take so much heat before they degrade. I would have to explain Ohm's Law to really get into it, but in a nutshell, using higher voltage will lower the amperage, and amps cause heat. This allows them to use smaller gauge wires to transmit power over large distances. Copper is expensive, so it makes it cheaper for them. Those substations use transformers to lower the high voltage to say 13,500, or 4160 volts, and then distribute the power to yet more substations which lower the voltage again to a manageable level, until it reaches the streets, and buildings, and businesses (usually at 120/240 volts). Some large businesses have their own substations.

All along this line, the copper wire needs to be intact. The circuit needs to be complete. And were talking about 3 phase power here too, so that means there are 3 wires all along that line, so all 3 need to be intact. If there is a problem any where along this circuit, the power will cease to flow. They require full time maintenance to keep them running, because one bad electrical connection anywhere along the circuit could cause the entire grid to fail, and whole cities, or neighborhoods would go dark. A loose screw on a connection will generate heat (the electricity will arc, and amperage will rise) and ultimately, even if it takes years, will fail. Sometimes violently. In 200 years, you could expect to find maintenance problems all over the place. Everywhere, really.

If the main power grid goes down, you would have to find a generator to create electrical power, and then you're talking having power in very localized areas, like a building, or a factory.

So, the Great War happens, and nuclear warheads rain from the sky. The odds of the power grid surviving that alone are astronomically bad. The lines only need to be cut in one place, and everything on the load side of that goes dark. Probably forever. How would you fix a high voltage line 50 feet in the air without the proper equipment, and knowledge? How would you even know where the circuit went down? The problem could be hundreds of miles away. The power lines I've seen in Fallout would require wholesale replacement, over miles.

When I look at electricity in Fallout, I have to suspend my disbelief, and remember it's a game. I just have to assume there's some atompunk "Tesla" science at work that they never explain, because it just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. Who is going around replacing all those lightbulbs?

Realistically, all those little fusion generators they have hooked up to the streetlights in the game would be incredibly valuable. They wouldn't be sitting there powering some lonely streetlight. People would be killing each other to get them. Everything would be dark, save for a few places, where some very talented and almost unbelievably resourceful people existed.

Not to mention that the power grid is a priority target in modern warfare. The likelihood of any sort of city-wide power supply after an atomic attack and 200 years of chaos is minimal, I would have thought. Individual buildings with backup nuclear generators is just about believable.

Im gonna be honest. I thought the story svcked compared to Fallout 3. There was really only one big twist and that was Mr. Houses Condition (And Casaers I guess)

Except that the power grid did survive in DC, it is even referenced in a terminal entry at one of the satilite towers.

I think it says that there are still lines to be found that have power, that doesn't necessarily mean an intact grid. In fact, you can see downed power lines all over the wasteland, so clearly the grid did not survive intact.

Yeah, my post is assuming real world science alone. I have to see Fallout though a pair of atompunk shades, where science fiction can fill in the gaps. They mention Tesla frequently in the games, maybe their using some kind of "over the air", or "through the ground itself" transmission of power, at least in some cases. Still, I see all those overhead power lines out in the wasteland, all destroyed, and think they must have still been using traditional methods for much of their power.