Unlike the other gods in the Elder Scrolls series, Sithis has never really proven his own existence. I know that the only ones who worship him are mainly the Dark Brotherhood and I have read that the Hist worship him. It would seem that he isn't even really known about by the general population. Anyways, do you think he is an actual god or just a representation of a concept?

In most cultures, Anuiel is honored for his part of the interplay that creates the world, but Sithis is held in highest esteem because he's the one that causes the reaction. Sithis is thus the Original Creator, an entity who intrinsically causes change without design. Even the hist acknowledge this being.

So it seems most cultures do revere Sithis, which lends to the belief, that the Sithis the DB worship is Lorkhan, or a murderous, trickster version.

Then further:
The Dragon God is always related to Time, and is universally revered as the "First God."

If Akatosh is numero uno, then Sithis ain't a god, so the answer yer lookin fer is concept. If you wanna be technical, the representation of a concept, is the mortal moniker "Chaos." Sithis itself being the concept.

Short answer: he isn't sentient, thus cannot prove he exists. Think of him as dark matter in space- theoretically he is there and his effects can be seen, but we cannot see him or interact with him.

So to answer your other question: concept, though he is worshipped most of the DB stuff is for Mephala in the end, and the other pantheons acknowledge him but don't give him a major role as a real god. I'll have to read the Yokudan myth, as it is pretty much the only one that doesn't follow a easy to remember format, but I think he might play a role there too (mostly Lorkhan and those bunch though, I think).

well isn't Shor his 'soul'?

More like a follower or a divine born of Sithis (a more Padomayic being). Sithis is a soul, of Padomay to be specific. http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml is the best explanation I find about Padomay/Sithis

Indeed:

All Tamrielic religions begin the same. Man or mer, things begin with the dualism of Anu and His Other. These twin forces go by many names: Anu-Padomay, Anuiel-Sithis, Ak-El, Satak-Akael, Is-Is Not. Anuiel is the Everlasting ineffable light, Sithis is the Corrupting inexpressible action. In the middle is the Gray Maybe ('Nirn' in the Ehlnofex). . .

In any case, from these two beings spring the et'Ada, or Original Spirits. To humans these et'Ada are the Gods and Demons; to the Aldmer, the Aedra/Daedra, or the 'Ancestors'.

To me this seems to indicate that there is a force greater than even the et'Ada. Of the twin forces The Monomyth goes on to say that it is easier for mortals to envision Sithis/change than Anuiel/stasis

That's kind of similar to the conundrum in our world where we try to imagine the Universe before the Big Bang - utter blackness and stasis. It's maddening to imagine absolutely nothing.

Sithis is more a primordial force (Think gravity) than an actual sentient being. The god worshiped by the Dark Brotherhood is a Daedric Prince, possible Mephala, in disguise. This leads to my question: Is Anuiel a god, or a primordial force such as Sithis?

I always thought that Akatosh was to Anu as Shor was to Padomay ? Akatosh manafesting as time (endless) and Shor manesfesting as space (which has a 'limit')

Anuiel is the other side of Sithis which I too believe to be a force rather than a being, even though The Monomyth repeatedly describes Anuiel as 'he/his'.

I am of the opinion that even the gods are subject to something. Anuiel/Sithis might be the twin forces that make the gods act the way they do. Let's face it, left to their own devices the gods would have destroyed Nirn many times over by now because Nirn is a constant reminder of the one moment in eternity when their omnipotence failed. The gods are vengeful beings; witness the punishment they meted out to Lorkhan/Shor/Shezarr/Sep. At some point even Mara and Stendarr signed off on that. Kynareth's tears don't put the heart back in the chest. There must be some other force at work that keeps them from doing the same to all of Nirn.


This seems to be a contradiction in the development of the pantheon, doesn't it? Akatosh is associated with Anu, yet time is not static and can therefore be looked upon as Padomaic.

your wording: "I am of the opinion that even the gods are subject to something" certainly hits a chord with me Destri Melarg. You might add that Anu and Padomay are omni-present and that 'they never descended into the Grey Maybe because they were already there and everywhere'. it is the Great spirits - described as their progeny - and their descendants who became entangled.

Even if it's not static, time is a force of order : without time, everything happens together in an indistingishable mess. Times orders events in a sequence and enable the ordered succession of cause and effect. If you consider the messy bubbling of a cauldron or the smooth flow of a river, which do you think is most closely aligned with order ?

Actually they do destroy Nirn many times over, at least Akatosh does, every kalpa.

True dat. The nilphony swirl's spun 'round too many times to count, before there was some stability, as Anu and Padomay scuffled over which was the victor of their confrontation. Unfortunately, that stability is cracking under emense pressure. It must eventually subside, to allow the cycle's continuation.

Don't the Elder Scrolls control the actions of everything besides Heros?

Isn't Sithis nothing? You know, a void...Nothingness. So, the DB worships nothing? I am confusing myself.

One would think; however, Oblivion portrayed Sithis a little differently.

So are Sithis worshippers nihilists or idiots or what?

If you look at Oblivion as your guide, probably a little bit of both.

lol

the apple of discord here the thi ng that upsets w hat is said of Sithis LIES IN THE Dark Brotherhood comments, the presence of the Night Mother and her five child skeletons, and the statue of Sithis presented in the Vile Lair which suggests that Sithis must be able ot take SOME kind of form. i for one think that its Mephala trying to mess with his/her followers. same may go for the Night Mother

No, don't think of a void as nothing. Think of Sithis as chaos, random, 0, etc. Sithis isn't a nothing, but a force of constant change, as opposed to stasis.

so in essence your saying Sithis is like an Over Daedra? and by conclusion Anuel is an Over Aedra?

In any case, from these two beings spring the et'Ada, or Original Spirits.

There's half Sithis and half Anuiel in all spirits; there's half chaos and half stasis in all spirits, if you are so inclined.

Read the http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml

Though, there are some who prefer to exorcise their Sithis side a little more often, and other who prefer to be more inclined towards Anuiel