Also possible.




Thank you! Thieves Guild? a Myth? Okay, in morrowind I walked right in to the south wall cornerclub and said "hey let me join the thieves guild" and they're like "kay." But in Oblivion they are a myth? that's about stupid. And even stupider, The Gray Fox apparently hands out memberships to every single recently released prisoner. Yeah, that's gonna help them keep it secret. Presumably everyone who has ever been in prison knows about the Gray Fox, so seriously... WTF??!!

Perhaps the author was just a [censored]. The general populace, i.e. non convicts, probably wouldn't believe the stuff they'd hear, "people" are stupid, is what I kinda like to say sometimes and it seems quite relevant here. Also, don't forget: Morrowind is one of the weirdest places on Tamriel and probably Nirn itself; look at the indigenous peoples, the flora, and hell, just look at the damn Nix-Hound. The Thieves Guild is much less powerful in Morrowind; they need the numbers, so why hide themselves? The Camonna Tong may just wipe them off of Morrowind itself.

The Thieves' Guild obviously has considerable power in Cyrodiil, so guards could be cracking down harder on them along with other implications, causing them to better conceal themselves.

It's rather elementary to me: Morrowind's TG is weaker and desperate, Cyrod's is more prominent, and people have convenient [censored]-ticity and ignorance.

It's not so simple. There's a tight line between good and evil when talking about daedra. While Mehrunes Dagon is indeed the lord of destruction, destruction itself isn't bad sometimes. However, he's the lord of other things (ambition, change) that aren't bad by default. The same for Azura, she's a master in manipulation but at least it cares about her followers (unlike other princes like Boethiah). And Clavicus Vile is just as evil as any actual businessman (sometimes even less ).

All daedra (as the aedra) are just a large scale of grey. Plus, most of the things they do is for pure entertainment, as inmortality is boring as hell. So they resemble a lot more to the greek/roman gods than the christian belief of "good-and-evil".

That fact did not escape me, but that seems like a reason to be more selective, not less, If they were smart, they would hire only outlanders, and people who were known to actively attack the Camonna Tong, by actively attack, I mean go into bars controlled by the Camonna Tong, and kill everyone there. There would be background checks, and you would have to actively search for the TG in order to join. I was actually completely shocked that it never occured to the Camonna Tong to infiltrate the TG and eventually kill them that way...



It seemed more like the guards knew and were just trying to cover it up. My guess is the TG has the guards pretty much in control, In fact this seems strongly implied, Though if that is the case, then the whole thing about relocating Lex was just retarded, they could have done it simply through bribery, so now I'm confused again...



Considering their ability to remove any and all bounties from their members' heads, I'd say the Thieves Guild have the guards pretty much infiltrated, Thieves Guild members are probably undercover as guards, furthermore The higher-ups are bribed, if this is impossible, then they are restationed or fired, as Lex was, if this is not possible, they are blackmailed, if this is impossible then as a last resort they are murdered. Well maybe not murdered... The Cyrodiil TG seems like a bunch of Robin Hoods really, and don't want to actually kill anyone.

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that the Daedra take some of the behaviors of Christian Satan, not necassarily the motives. The Daedra aren't evil, just Daedra, railroaded by their sphere. Except Azura. She's evil incarnate

And about the Thieve's guild. Supposedly they are so secretive that they are a myth, but if you talk to random people in the street, they know about the Thieve's guild, the Gray Fox, and even that the beggers are his eyes and ears. No one can possibly think it's a myth. I think the author was part of the thieve's guild, trying to cover up the guild again. The only people who don't seem to know everything about the Thieve's Guild is Lex's immediate superiors.

How hard would it be to enchant an altar to heal and cure disease on touch? Just because it happens dont assume it was some godlike figure. This is a world of magic.

The Altar isn't that much of a problem really.

The Morag Tong philosphy merged the (Daedric) concept of action with the concept of change, something that is embodied by Lorkhan (hole in the statue's chest), as he brought back mortality to the Aurbis by creating Mundus (the Earth bones around the statue) the skulls and all that go with the grim reaper aspect.

It seems the Dark Brotherhood then started worshiping this whole package of philosophy and calling it Sithis.

So does that mean they are actually worshipping Lorkhan? Or that they worship Sithis and Lorkhan?

They worship Lorkhan, who they imagine is their Sithis, who doesn't exist. Add in a few of Mephala's practical jokes, some moldy ghosts sitting in a tomb, and you've got a theological necromantic mishmash where just about anything can happen.

No, not in that sense. While you can't quite separate the concept that is being idolized from the gods that embody it, to say that Lorkhan is worshipped would be the same to say that the Altmer worship Alduin.

With each culture comes a certain way to look at a god and a certain structure. The Dark Brotherhood does not look at the concepts that Lorkhan embodies as the Altmer do, as such the Dark Brotherhood does not worship Lorkhan, they worship Sithis.

This is important because a religion is what people make of it. The gods that are involved are merely structures but are given shape by this. There appears to be only a limited number of these power structures, the same Eight and One occurs in every culture. As such the number of gods is limited, but because they're given shape by the people who worship them the number of appearances and identities they have is unlimited.



edit:

The Daedra are a different story, but they didn't die and become the et'Ada either.

So since they worship an abstract concept they call a father, who is missing a heart, those annoying little altars are poking Lorkhan's considerable selfishness just right?

When you kill something, it makes it stronger because now there is more nothingness in the world.

No there's not. It just comes back again. Lunar currency.

It's part of how magic is supposed to work. Symbols have power because there is a supposed connection between the symbol and what it represents, just as concepts have power because they're connected to certain actions which are part of this concept.

It's mentioned once in lore but it's also somewhat part of the fundaments of how the world works, you can see that in the way the Aedra and Daedra are tied to their spheres of concepts and in the way the world obeys to mythic narratives.



Numerological speaking, Sithis would be either 1 or -1 because Anu and Padomay, or Anu-El and Sithis are the two parts that make up the world. As they are opposites one must be negative and the other positive.

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This Carnivale Marathon is putting me in the right frame of mind.

Rule in Oblivion? No rest for the wicked then I presume.

Umaril comes to mind. Mankar could have been another.

So it's probably based on an agreement, or the Prince's whim, rather than a soul filter with slots for 0-15 infamy and 16-200 infamy?

Tharn wasn't hardcoe enough then?

Agreement and followers, but bugger if I know. That's just what I'm thinking. I haven't seen examples of anything else though.

I don't get if Mephala and the NightMother are the same thing or different? Because I think of them right now as two separate entities, and the NightMother is a fraud trying to be Mephala, the Dark Brotherhood is full of nobodies and psychopaths, which is why they are easily misled.

Either that or the Night Mother is Mephala in disguise. In Elder Scrolls, don't deceased souls that don't pass on usually go mad, though?

I personally don't know what to think yet, but isn't there a small bit of evidence suggesting it might be Nocturnal?

They are two different things. The DB is a cult following to an inexistent force, which was first "founded" by the "Night Mother". And the Night Mother is just some old loony that didn't walk the path. Nor a foot even strayed it.

Edit: Whereas the Morag Tong and Mephala... yeah. They're for real.

Not unless vaguely similar titles constitutes a link or evidence:

Nocturnal=Night Mistress.

Ah, I think that's what I'm thinking about. But is there any OTHER evidence that could suggest that she is the Night Mother?