Six Questions for Morrowind

Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:55 pm

In my days in Morrowind, I've come to gather several questions as to the culture. It all came out a bit longer than I had wanted, but I figure it's better to keep things to a single thread than to spread them about. Answer them all, answer just one, or even none at all. Either way, they are the following as listed, with a better explanation of each question below the list:

How do Dunmeri names function; what is the nature of the capital; why do even the natives seem to prefer Morrowind to Resdayn; why would House Dres, whose very livelihood depends on slavery, ally itself with the king to abolish slavery; which settlements of Vvardenfell predate the opening to colonization; and what is the Dunmeri word for bone?

1. As for names, it is the ordering which confuses me. For example, we have some cases where the family name comes first and the given name second (Hlaalu Helseth, Hlaalu Athyn Llethan, Hlaalu Brevur, Indoril Nerevar, Sotha Sil) as well as names which are the opposite (Vedam Dren, Orvas Dren, Ilmeni Dren). There are also several Hlaalus who have the latter structure (Eno Hlaalu, Llathyno Hlaalu).

The first thing that came to mind was that it might be due to status. For a noble, the name of your house or family is far more important than it is to a commoner, so naturally it would come before the given name, but Duke Vedam Dren seems to mess this up.

The next thing is that Vedam Dren may simply be an exception. He is close to the Empire, and so it seems possible he would adopt their ways and order his name in the way the Imperials do. But then, his brother Orvas Dren ruins that idea as Orvas, leader of the fiercely xenophobic Commona Tong, would never change his name to match Imperial customs.

The last possibility is simply that, since Hlaalu Helseth and Hlaalu Llethan were both kings, it is merely a custom undertaken by the rulers of Morrowind. Still, considering that the monarchy was an Imperial institution, I'm not exactly sure why such an ordering would arise or even seem necessary, save to possibly distinguish them from others. The answer, though, may lie with Indoril Nerevar. He was a king of the Chimer, so although the Dunmeri monarchy was an Imperial creation, it may have drawn its customs and rituals from the days of the Chimer. But then, Sotha Sil was no king, being the only surviving member of the minor House of Sotha (mentioned http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Sotha_Sil and more clearly http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ald_Sotha under notes, as well as in game during a quest relating to Ald Sotha. I forget which one...)

Thusly, I'm a bit confused about it all. The best I can guess is that it may have been a Chimeri tradition that died out somehow, but was revived by the monarchy. Either that, or it was just a careless mistake made during the process of having to come up with hundreds upon hundreds of random names.

2. Are Mournhold and Almelexia considered two distinct but conjoined cities (like Rome and Vatican City), or is Mournhold simply a district within the city of Almelexia?

3. The Dunmer, House or otherwise, tend to scorn Imperial encroachment on their land. Yet, despite this, they seem to have willingly abandoned their name for the land?Resdayn?and adopted the Imperial name?Morrowind. It seems a bit odd to me since, as I remember it, even the Ashlanders use Morrowind. I suppose it could have simply been done to prevent confusion, but it doesn't seem like something that would have been hard to clarify. Alternately, it could just be explained as the erosion of the native culture, being replaced by foreign influences and languages (you don't here Scotland referred to as Alba very often? or at least that I'm aware of.)

4. From what I gathered about House Dres, it's primarily an agricultural House which relies on slaves to keep its plantations running smoothly. As such, it was, along with House Indoril, fiercely against abolitionist movements and the Imperial presence in Morrowind. But then, following the events in Morrowind, they ally themselves with the pro-Imperial Helseth and House Hlaalu to fight against House Indoril, Redoran, and the institution of slavery? I'm kind of at a loss to explain the sudden change of heart and allegiances. My best guess is that they did it to gain power, but since their society relied so heavily on slavery, and since Indoril and Redoran aren't weak by any stretch of the imagination, I'm not sure why they would have sided with Helseth over their more like-minded kin. Any insight out there?

5. It's stated the Vvardenfel was only recently opened to colonization at the start of Morrowind (it's been open for thirteen years at the start of the game, I believe). Some seem to have taken this to mean that there were no cities, save for the ancient city of Vivec, on Vvardenfel. The other interpretation is that the major cities?Balmora, Ald'ruhn, the whole of House Telvanni, living or otherwise?are much older, but that some of the smaller ones are potentially more recent, especially the Imperial cities (Pelegiad, Caldera, and Tel Vos kinda). Any information on which cities predate the opening and which come after?

6. For the last question, is there any indication as to the Dunmeri word for "bone"? I'm curious since two of the House council seats are "forests" (mora, as in the stone forest Balmora and the mushroom forest Sadrith Mora). Though Ald'ruhn is a good name, a part of me wants the three to match, so Ald'ruhn would have the alternate name of "bone forest" as it is, quite literally, a forest of bones.
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Oceavision
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:18 pm

I haven't really thought much about #1 and 3-thru-6 so I'll let others answer those for you.

But for #2 isn't Almelexia a goddess and one of the three tribunal gods, and Mournhold the city? I've never been aware of any city named Almelexia.

Have I missed something? If so you definitely have my curiosity up.
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Francesca
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:26 pm

1. Preference of the person wearing the name, inconsistent application by the Devs, cultural change influenced by the Imperials, have your pick.

2. It's just a district as it doesn't have it's own local government, unlike say the Vatican or the City of London.

3. Resdayn comes from the time the Chimer and Dwemer were living together. It might have been called Morrowind afterwards.

4. Something about allot of the old crows dropping dead of old age and the younger generation being much less traditional. It's never really well explained.

5. Nope.

6. Never heard of any such word.
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Stacy Hope
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:23 am

5. There's really only one sensible way of looking at it. So you have to go with your gut and think about towns are likely to be old. Also, notice that all of Vvardenfel was once a Temple preserve, but now control of it is part of the political game the factions play.
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Damian Parsons
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:53 pm

6. 'Ruhn' means 'home' or 'hearth-hall', and 'ald' means old (I think ald means old, at least).
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Wayne W
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:19 am

6. 'Ruhn' means 'home' or 'hearth-hall', and 'ald' means old (I think ald means old, at least).

so you could say aid ruhn means forest of shells or shell forest, makes sense
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Amiee Kent
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:45 am

so you could say aid ruhn means forest of shells or shell forest, makes sense

no, no it doesnt :huh: M'aiq was right as to the meaning of Ald'Ruhn, and we already know that mora is forest... so no wai.
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Hope Greenhaw
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:55 pm

But 'shell' something would be a good name, of course.
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Claire Mclaughlin
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:33 pm

2. If you look at http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/minibigmaproadslore31gv.jpg, it refers to Mournhold as "Mournhold/Almalexia," and in many other places, the city name is listed as only Almalexia, so I think that they're just two interchangeable names for the same place.

6.
so you could say aid ruhn means forest of shells or shell forest, makes sense

Not really. http://www.imperial-library.info/translation/index.shtml says that Ald- does mean "elder" or "first," and that Ald'Ruhn means "elder home." The whole "-wood" thing with city names seems to be a retcon of sorts to make the leap between http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/arena_morrowind.shtml to http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/vvardenfell_map.jpg.
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Floor Punch
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:23 pm

To 1, my thoughts on naming conventions:
King Hlaalu Heseth, the Hlaalu part is not so much part of the name but a title, a signifier of Party affiliation.

There are also Serjo as part of a name, like Serjo Athyn Sarethi, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_True_Noble%27s_Code, which is like a "Honorable Sir". As people like you more in-game, you sometimes get greeted as "Muthsera?"

2) http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mournhold was leveled several times, by Mehrunes Dagon, under siege by Imperial Legion Forces in Barenziah's youth, and stage of the uprising The Arnesian War, 3E 396. Mournhold was renamed Almalexia in her honor, although the timing escapes me atm. The Temple city Mournhold is seat of the Royal Palace and the High Chapel, in Tribunal it has its own distinct (locked) City gates. Mournhold is named extensively in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Real_Barenziah and in Tribunal, it is called Capital of Morrowind by producers and byline, it seems some have never adopted the re-naming ;)
From the http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/morrowind.shtml: "Almalexia

The largest and oldest city in Morrowind, named for its patron goddess. Almalexia is truly an ancient city, possibly predating the Dark Elves. It is reputed to be built over the ruins of a vast Dwarven city, although the current inhabitants vigorously deny this. Here the intrepid traveler would find the center of the Tribunal cult, in the sprawling palace/temple of Mournhold, a city within the city."

That's what I got time for now, cheers.

Edit: added city-within-city quote from PGE
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Tinkerbells
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:27 pm

crap i forgot aid ruhn doesn't have the word mora in it...almost looked smart didn't i?
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Britney Lopez
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:11 am

As to 5), some findings and thoughts:

You are correct that Vvardenfell recently was opened for settlement and exploitations, it was reorganized in 3E 414 as an Imperial Provincial District. Vvardenfell had been maintained as a preserve administrated by the Temple since the Treaty of the Armistice in 2E 896, and except for a few Great House settlements sanctioned by the Temple, Vvardenfell was previously uninhabited and undeveloped.

Besides Vivec, the Temple maintained several stronghold, certainly Ghostgate citadel being the oldest, dating to the construction of the Ghostfence. Molag Mar is of uncertain age, but has served as a citadel for the Buyont Armigers and as a stopover for pilgrims to Mt. Kand and Mt. Assarnibibi; Mar Gan and Gnisis apart from the shrines seem more recent.

The forts and Imperial charters are definitely recent, Buckmoth, Moonmoth, Fort Darius, Wolverine Hall, Pelagiad and Caldera, with their Nordic architecture.

What can be said about the other towns? Sadrith Mora and some other wizard towers (except Tel Vos, perhaps Tel Branora) are in traditional Telvanni sphere, just across the channel to Telvanni Isles. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Realizations_of_Acrobacy mentions Sadrith Mora as the home of Master Neloth, and him in the possession of Mehrunes' Razor, although no date is given. The demographics of many cities point to massive expansions, Balmora holds ~50% non-Dunmer for example. Dagon Fel is an ancient Nordic settlement, razed several times and has now been reconstructed by Imperial Nords. Ald'ruhn recently became the new Redoran Council seat, relocating from Blacklight, a move Bolvyn Venim is credited for, although an in-game dialog states that most of its inhabitants are not affiliated with House Redoran.

Take all that, and it largely boils down to Proweler's, not many concrete details ;)

Edit:Ald-ruhn dialog
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:17 am

I must say, I am most thankful to everyone who responded. I've gained a fair bit from the experience. I wish I could say more (I intended to really, before getting sidetracked with other threads), but as I have matters to attend to early tomorrow, I'll have to leave it at my thanks for now so that I manage to squeeze in some length of sleep. Still, you've all my thanks and appreciation, truly.
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Chica Cheve
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:51 pm

As for the Dres, Ted Peterson in Loranna's Lore RP wrote that some of the younger Dres nobles were ready to abandon the institution of slavery. Although this is all unofficial, since Ted Peterson was one of the founders of TES and a good writer I like his interpretation of how abolition came about.

He writes that Helseth has a political marriage to a Dres noble who took the name Dinara upon marriage (Vendama was her maiden name). What began as an alliance became a love match when Dinara saw Helseth's courage during the Morrowind civil war (with the Indoril/Redoran alliance). Dinara and her brother Obael are shown as already inclined to abolish slavery in their own holdings.

Helseth is portrayed as abolishing slavery for a couple of reasons: to weaken his enemies, who had no time to prepare for abolition, but also to follow Imperial beliefs. To that end, Helseth frees the slaves and sends his still-respected mother Barenziah as his emissary to the Dres nobility to order/persuade them to give up their household troops as well. Helseth's long-term goal is to break the House system, since he feels that (along with slavery) it's keeping Morrowind backward.

As stated, this in non-canonical, but I hope it helps.
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Vahpie
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:14 pm

Of course there is good ole "On Morrowind"

"House Hlaalu in combination with Imperial colonists embarked on a vigorous campaign of settlement and development. In the decades after reorganization, Balmora and the Ascadian Isles regions have grown steadily. Caldera and Pelagiad are completely new settlements, and all legion forts were expanded to accommodate larger garrisons.

House Telvanni, normally conservative and isolationist, has been surprisingly aggressive in expanding beyond their traditional tower villages. "

Seems to say that the main cities existed pre-opening.
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Yama Pi
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:31 am

Of course there is good ole "On Morrowind"

"House Hlaalu in combination with Imperial colonists embarked on a vigorous campaign of settlement and development. In the decades after reorganization, Balmora and the Ascadian Isles regions have grown steadily. Caldera and Pelagiad are completely new settlements, and all legion forts were expanded to accommodate larger garrisons.

House Telvanni, normally conservative and isolationist, has been surprisingly aggressive in expanding beyond their traditional tower villages. "

Seems to say that the main cities existed pre-opening.


indeed. That line about the legion forts being "expanded" somehow makes me think they may have even been there before as well.......interesting
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JLG
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:46 am

And then there is Balmora and Tel Aruhn, mentioned in http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:2920%2C_Sun%27s_Height_%28v7%29... So yeah, there were major settlements on Vvardenfell before, even in the First Era. I am going through most of the books to provide hyper-links, eventually all the places and the Vvardenfell page will get updated with better documentation.


Edit: added Tel Aruhn
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meg knight
 
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Post » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:42 pm

House Telvanni, normally conservative and isolationist, has been surprisingly aggressive in expanding beyond their traditional tower villages. "

Seems to say that the main cities existed pre-opening.

The in-game dialog on that subject is pure gold. "Troubles for House X" I believe.
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nath
 
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