The thing is, TES has a medieval kind of setting. Back in medieval times, homosixuality wasn't all that common, at least not expressed publicly. As far as I know it was seen as an affront to God, and therefore people could be killed for it. Something like that would be far too controversial to depict in a game like this. Of course, in the medieval times of our world, they burnt witches as well, so we know they're at least a little more liberal in Tamriel... So I guess it could be implemented, but I can't see that it does much for the story or experience, since relationships isn't a part of our playable characters experience. Of course NPCs could be, but it might look weird compared to the setting if there are too many.
As for interracial couples, what little lore I have read backs it up and it doesn't seem all that uncommon.

It is a fantasy realm, not medieval, and Dibella, (equtes to the god of love) says love comes in any form or something close to that, Interracial happens in Tamriel (the real Barenziah in Daggerfall features a rather steamy encounter between a dunmer and a Khajitt

EDIT: fixing the quote

yeah, that went off a big tangent... anyway, the original comment was that there are other things that would make the game seem more "real" than sixual "diversity", such different body complexions (fat, skinny, tall, short), ages (teenagers, children, babies, the bodies of old people not looking like Tarzan without clothing/armor) , left-handed people, etc. Those give you quick visual cues and made for a diverse atmosphere, whereas sixual diversity would either have to be just mentioned in passing (books, comments) or thrown in your face with stereotypes.

Yep, it is a fantasy realm, based on medieval times and medieval lore, with some Greek and Roman mythology sprinkled in. Why is so hard to people to understand that, I don't know.

But not constrained to them, Ancient Greece was very accepting of homosixuality so maybe it draws on it's 'sixual diversity' views from there

Very, very, very loosely inspired by a romanticized view of medieval life and lore, with more than just Greek and Roman mythology sprinkled in. Also with massive amounts of setting specific mythology and lore in place. And with a completely different set of religions based on a completely different concept.

Not getting into a religious debate by any means, but living in a world where your God occasionally communicates with you directly and verifiably, and where you can ask questions of that God eliminates a lot of interpretation. Also, living in a world where several other completely different species are as intelligent and spiritual as humans has got to change how people see themselves.

When it comes to things like sixuality, inter-racial relationships, cultural issues and such, the influences in Nirn are almost completely different from the ones on Earth. Using our history as a basis for their attitudes seems silly to me.

I agree with you and would go even further. I dont see many medieval (European) influences on Tamriel culture at all.
Sure, some of the architecture is reminiscent, but I always thought that was simply convergent evolution, sometimes a shape just works in certain circumstances.
We are talking about a world where gods and magic are real. The reason Tamriel hasnt got much technology doesnt mean they are in a dark age, far from it. They dont need technology, they have magic.

If someone knows, can they tell me if there is a real world counterpart for the elder scrolls (elven) creation myth?
The creation of the world as a negative, not a positive act, a downward spiral of creation, has always seemed very unique to me. Maybe it comes from some (ancient) real life belief that I am not aware of.

I often see it happen that people somehow confuse fantasy with medieval. I have played online fantasy games and there is a small but persistent crowd that keeps referring to them as medieval games.
I dont know why. A medieval game would have no goblins or magic or gods etc. etc.
Perhaps in peoples minds fantasy and reality blend to a point where history is considered a mixture of them?

In any case, Tamriel is far more diverse, magical, fantastical and interesting than boring old medieval Europa. Five hundred years and the only advance to come out of it a better horse collar, is there any more boring period in history?

TES has already had individuals who's sixuality was a part of the game/role playing experience. Be it homosixual, bisixual, or interspecies.
I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

"Very loose"? Really?
...oh, boy.


As a general comment: You know? Why not! Let the developers include in-depth homosixual/lisbian/bi-sixual relationships and interactions. They can hire Rosie O'Donnell and Amanda Bearse and Harvey Fierstein as voice actors.

Or how about, maybe even a gay/lisbian/bisixual hero?. Very easy to implement...
During chargen, you get an option, after race, to select if you are straight, gay,lisbian or bisixual
When the game starts, an LGB quest gets started; this quest will control 5-6 NPCs with male and female dialog specific to personal relations, and depending which sixual orientation you choose during chargen, the quest will make the 5-6 characters either male of female, and the main character would be able to flirt with same six NPCs, or talk about growing up gay/lisbian/bisixual, one of them could be a companion ... maybe put them all in a gay inn where they can all meet and be themselves... **

I can hear it now, the hero is about to slay an ogre and the ogre says, in a very raspy voice, "I just want to be loved, is that so wrroooonggg?!?"
...and maybe, after all of that, we can get to the business of killing freaking dragons..

.. now, let me start complaining about not having fat, left-handed, handicapped people in-game..

** now that I think about it, not a bad idea
I can mod this, but I'd need voice people and someone to put the dialog in-game.

I'm here to save the world, not to have badly scenarised six with a bunch of polygons.

I'm not really sure why this matters.

Regarding medieval mythology, the connection is very loose. It's a mixture of medieval, Tolkian (I don't know the adjective), ancient Roman and Greek and their own lore. Just look at the elves; in medieval mythology, at least where I'm from, elves weren't good with bows and arrows, nor did they live in forests; or even above ground. They lived inside hills, from where they trapped travellers who fell asleep nearby, seduced them with their dancing and killed them.

SystemShock> I can't tell if you're being serious; but again, nobody's been suggesting it be a theme in the story.

Which isn't at all what the majority of people in favour of sixual diversity are looking for. They want some representation of a major aspect of their own lives to be included in the game in a natural way. Not "scenarised six" whatever the heck that is.

It's really not a hard concept. First people want NPCs to have apparent relationships with each other. They want to be able to see that those two people are friends, or those two are siblings and those two are married. That helps make them seem more real. It gives a reason to want to save them from the big bad.

Second, people want some of those relationships to reflect real alternate sixualities that exist in the world (and some fake alternate sixualities that can only exist in Nirn). Again, it helps people feel things are more real.

Now, unless you feel that this would be a waste of resources that could be better directed toward making the fight scenes better, I can't see why anyone would object to this idea at all.

Actually I was just fooling around. But unless there are companions or at least NPC to create deep friendship/relationship with, not just "hey you look good, let's have six" (that's what I meant by badly scenarised, English is not my native language so maybe I wasn't clear) yea, it's a waste of resource and time.
What I wish is official companions (so not mod made), some jerk who tells bad jokes when in battle, another who's always dissing on him etc. I would like them to dialog with each other, well, to have a team. I must admit, you kinda feel a bit lonely in the TES series sometimes.

"M′aiq likes female Kahjit, M′aiq has a crush for female argonians aswell"

We need diversity. Period.

I have to confess, I was being a bit facetious at first, but after I described the mod, since I mod, I thought it is something that can be easily implemented...

As for the loose connection between the game and medieval times, I don't see how one would say the connection is very loose, given all the aspects of medieval times we see in game, real-life and lore: you have kings/queens/emperors/counts/courtesans being part of courts and living in castles and walled cities (the social structure certainly seems medieval); knights/crusaders/paladins; mages/alchemists; elves, ogres, trolls, unicorns, vampires, even the lion people and lizard people; swords/shield/maces/bows an arrows; the armors certainly look exactly like medieval armors (metal plate, chainmail, tabards); certainly the clothes look like the come straight from medieval times.. you may say there is a lot of Tolkien in TES, but Tolkien didn't invent dwarfs, or elves, or orcs, or talking trees; he took those from medieval folklore.

So, I really don't understand why people say it it "loosely" connected to medieval times.
On a side note, another thing I think a curiousity, is why some people are quick to point out it is a fantasy world, yet, they want modern, real-life human interactions.

The problem there is that things like Kings/Queens/Emperors/Counts/Courtesans/Courts/Castles/Walled Cities all pre-date the Middle Ages and all exist long after the Middle Ages. Knights/Crusaders/Paladins are fairly specific to the Middle Ages, but Mages/Alchemists/Elves/Ogres/Trolls/Vampires all pre-date the Middle Ages as well. Some of the armor and weapons are clearly based on Middle Age examples, while others are pure fantasy, same with the clothing.

The reason why people say "loosely" (at least why I say it) is due to the cherry picking of elements from Medieval history, mythology and fantasy that suit the needs of the story creators, while other far more influential and important parts of Medieval life are outright ignored.

It is this that makes the assertion that the games are based on "medieval times" a falsehood. It makes use of some specific elements of Medieval times and throws away the vast majority of it, and much of what it does use is itself based on earlier stories or historical facts.

As for your side note, I've already said why people want it. Because seeing a reflection of yourself in a game, seeing a reflection of people you know helps draw you into the game. A dull lifeless world is not fun to adventure in.

It's a gross generalisation to say any era but modern day looked badly on same six relationships.

I think you see things too black and white.
I like fantasy, I prefer fantastical over couldve-happened. But that does not automatically mean all logic and reality goes out the window. In fact, fantasy relies on 'seeming real'. It is when things are presented in a fantastical manner, and have enough realism in them to suspend your disbelief that a good story happens.
And in a fantastical setting you can present things that are not all they seem, they have a deeper layer, are perhaps a metaphor for something that is very real.
So a good story uses imagination to invent metaphors about ourselves. Dragons and elves etc. But it is only a good story if it has enough reality in it to make you forget its only a fairytale. Because the characters seem real, you care for them and invest emotionally in the story. Thus better absorbing its message.

I am quick to point out that it is a fantasy world because it is. Elves and trolls are not medieval. In the time of some knights and lots and lots of poor serfs there were no elves or trolls. They have always only existed in fantasy. I think it is an important distinction to make, medieval v. fantasy, because it contradicts your statement of: 'they didnt have this then and then. why should es?' (paraphrasing) It doesnt apply because its not a historical setting. It doesnt even play on earth.

Well, in Classical history, homosixual relationships were accepted, but they were almost always more "friends with benefits" type deals. There was almost no "gay marriage." This obviously has a lot to do with needing to have a wife bear you sons to take you name, property, and support your city/state/city state in war. This was almost always Grown Man - Younger Boy OR Citizen - Slave/Foreigner. Obviously, there were people who were exclusively homosixual, but they would have never formalized their relationships, there just wasn't the cultural practices in place. They wouldn't be prevented from it, but it would be looked down upon.

Now, you can whip out the whole "Elder Scrolls is not base on earth history" and then I will say "Well, to deny the real historical influences is ignorance, AND if we ignore earth history, we can ignore everything else, including Earthly sixuality, and assume that there are not homosixuals on Nirn.

And as an example of this, Crassius Curio in Morrowind was infamous for making advances on male characters. This fits perfectly with the "Elderly wealthy patron - younger foreigner servant" relationship. So there is a precedent for it in the games, and it is close to real historical situations.

If it doesn't take too much development time with people in meetings deciding how many hetero vs homo sixual relationships to have in each town go for it. It is not something that I care about so I don't want much time put to it. I am selfish like that. But it wont bother me if it is in, so if the time required to implement is small I wont care.

Sigged,

If they do somehow add it then I will be OK with that as I will not use it, but if they display it as an high-point Achievement then I will be annoyed. :brokencomputer:

It's not much more than this that is being requested. An acknowledgement of alternate sixualities, but without it being a joke, a crude come-on or a comedic stereotype. Fallout 3 had at least one reference, and fairly subtle. New Vegas has at least one companion who tells you she's gay in conversation, but nothing really more than that.

It's really not much to ask of Bethesda. Of course, they'd have to do a slightly better job of including any kind of relationships among NPCs first.

edit: I'll admit to a slight ulterior motive here. I'd kinda like to see it included so that some pathetic bigots can freak out about it and then refuse to play what will likely be a great game. Serve them right.