Please don't use my post as a quote for fortifying your own opinions that does not reflect my own by leaving out half my post. I hope that you are ironical or something, because twisting my post like that would be enough for reporting it to the mods. Homo/Bi/Trans/sixuality etc can be a touchy subject, and I don't want to be seen as the one critizising when I in fact like the idea of exploring different types of relationships.

Original post:

I have said nothing about kissing specifically. I honestly hardly care about it, and given the state of animation today; I'd rather they avoid it. What I'm saying is that to me at least, NPC-NPC relationships have to seem natural to some extent if I'm to be able to immerse myself in the world.

you do realize that some reptiles, some fish, and some invertebrates are asixual right! as in they don't require a mate to make babies or eggs

and I hyphened to emphasize sue me :flamethrower:

It's a fantasy game. In your logic, orcs and argonians would make the whole thing not immersive. It doesn't add to immersion at all. There was a gay at my last job (cool guy), one of my friends had a gay friend, there were gays in my high school. But it's been ages since I saw a gay dude(s) (movies not included), how does that hurt the realism or immersion of my life? And since it's a roleplaying game, you can imagine yourself that you just didn't run across any gays, transsixuals, necrophiles, zoophiles, pedophiles, bigamists, mono-parental parents, cults practising orgies, hokers, asixuals, bisixuals, etc...

THOUGH, I wouldn't mind seeing one character from on of these groups, like Barenziah, or the necrophile from Morrowind, but really, there's no need trying to represent everyone for real relationships, it will only clutter the game and make it, dare I say, too realistic. I'm playing a fantastic role playing game, not a life simulator. There's tons of things you can't do in real life from the TES games, I don't know why everything from real life should make its way unto the game, it will only loose its appeal, its otherworldliness, its uniqueness.

You mean that they are hermaphrodites, right? Asixual is another thing.

Euh? This is a forum dude, if you don't want to be quoted, leave. I mean, I'm not twisting your post or anything. I just said that I agreed with what you said, and then added my opinion that is on top of this, no need for me to repeat what you just said because I may have an opinion which is not entirely identical to yours. I didn't used your whole post because I didn't agreed with your whole post, easy. I didn't try to twist your post in any way, plus it's still there in its entirety as far as I know. I don't see how it could be detrimental to you in any way, you were quoted, if there's something dubious about your post that's not my problem, but there wasn't so no need for this to get over your head. I mean, have you ever posted on forums before or something... <_<

No, you misunderstand me I think. I meant that NPC's behaving like people makes them more immersive. If they eat, sleep, 'have a life'. If this then includes romance then I think it is wrong to pretend a whole section of it does not exist, in a game as large as an elder scrolls game.
It is not a part of 'representing' (I think you mean that in the modern sense?) It is about not giving the impression that only one option is acceptable. Wich would be morally wrong.

I may have misunderstood you. But still, I think relationships are not that important. Plenty of people don't have boy/girlfriends, it's not because you don't see it that it doesn't exist.

The sentence you quoted was meant as an somehwat ironical introduction, and as you leaved out the important part of my post it changed the whole meaning of it. I have been on these forums for years, I had another account before dating back as far as 2003, so you do not need to tell me how these forums work. Rather, I should tell you how forums work, which I also did. You do not change peoples post like that!

Plenty of young people don't but for every young person there are mother and father who most diffidently have a romantic relationship. The existence of humanity in general is a prove of how well represented romance is in live.

Quoting a part of a post will never change the rest of it. Ever. I may have misunderstood what you wanted to say, but that is NOT changing people's post. Changing is quoting the whole thing and modifying it.

PS: I've been on forums since I was... young. One of my old forums accounts had 13 in it because I was 13, but I've been on forums long before that when I was downloading SNES games on the computer before I ever had my xbox and psx. I'm 21 in 3 months btw.

You do know that most media is a business trying to make as much money as they can, right? And as such, they want to appeal to the masses, rather than a small nucleus of people. And never mind sixuality: for example, in the US, how much air time/newsprint/internet content/etc is dedicated to the NFL (American Football), and how much is dedicated to, say, Cricket? There are thousands of people who like Cricket in the US, yet, you rarely catch a Cricket match on TV, unless ESPN plays it at 3AM on one of their channels to fill an hour or two the need to fill on a given month.. the NFL, on the other hand, has its own 24x7x365 channel, even though the season only lasts 6 months..

As for making NPCs more like real people... hmm.. I don't know, especially if you think game developers should cater to what you call "non-main stream people". I guess you really mean "gay" instead of "non-main stream" people. There are other "non-main stream" people who are very real and you probably wouldn't be happy should they be represented in games.

BTW, I do not recall any time in history where a real prince married another real prince, so having a game where a prince marries another prince would make the game less real, wouldn't it?

yep that's the word

but its so boring, svcks to b them

If people miss my post and just read yours, which is quite probable that some do, the post would look entirely different. In that sense, the post has been changed.
Let's just leave it at that, I guess we could go on forever else.

England had a king who was executed in a rather horrible manner because he was gay.
By order of his wife.

And I dont know why you felt the need to include a jibe on my language. It doesnt really add anything to the debate.

Given that fairy tales involving princes and princesses are either written or take place in a direct mirror of medieval Europe, yes it would; but only given the context. I think the point that could be made from that sentence, however, is that in modern day media it's considered unheard of that the stereotypical male lead would be homosixual. Try imagining Duke Nukem retaining all of his character traits apart from his love for women, and be gay rather than straight; it's a possible scenario in the real world, but because he's a male, straight stereotype, it's publicly unheard of. That's where the prince anology comes into play.

This whole discussion is really so exaggerated and feels quite unnecessary. Fine, I understand that some people would like homo/bi-sixual people in the game, but the thing is; it's a game. It doesn't need to represent the reality as it is today. In fact, if it did do that too much the game would lose that special feeling of being a fantasy. As far as we know, homosixuals might not exist or are really rare. Besides, how many gay people do you honestly think would show their sixuality openly in a place like Skyrim??? Not all too many, I promise you.

We might not be living in the Dark Ages any more, but the people of Tamriel sure as hell doesn't live in a modern world, either.

:slap:

They should put in 10% gay, lisbian, bi, transgendered and queer dragons. They should also put in 50% female dragons, including overweight Big Beautiful Jills, dragons with glasses and dragons in wheelchairs. Also, dragons of different colours, dragons who don't shave their legs and dyslectic dragons with ED. No one should feel excluded.

Still, that's not a prince marrying another prince. It's a king getting executed for being gay, a completely different thing. That's actually also a reason not to include homosixuals in the game (at least not more than one or two), if other NPCs would find out that they were gay they might get killed for it.

I think you should take time to read through the old thread. We already discussed the parallels and lack of same to medieval Europe pretty thoroughly.

Very good point. We don't know if there are gay people at all in Tamriel (weren't people of Nirn created unlike us?), and we don't know if they're a bunch of intolerant people either.

Wow!

You do have a way of misinterpreting things I say.
First, Skyrim is not medieval England.
Second, Nords have quite loose morals, according to lore.
Third, please dont take me so literally dude. Read what the guy below my last post said.

Since the topic has largely been taboo in games for many years, I don't believe there is much information in existence to know how alternate sixualities are treated in the ES universe.

If Bethesda decided to include them now, they would likely be creating that information for the first time.

Naturally, everything from our history is irrelevant, since almost all the major influencing factors are different in our world and Nirn. It would be nearly impossible for their attitudes to mirror ours.

The best way for Bethesda to handle it, in my opinion, would be to write the characters as they want, with whatever relationships they want, and then if they decide they don't have enough diversity just randomly alter some of them. There would be no need for major changes or huge re-writes because most gay/lisbian/whatever couples behave pretty much exactly the same as most straight couples. Just treat them as normal, because they are.

Maybe, but I really don't have the energy right now :tongue: However, that's my point and I'm sticking to it.

A very good point, indeed. I really wouldn't mind there being gay people in Skyrim, but I see no reason for them to be there either. Just as long as they're handled in a natural and not-all-too-obvious-way, I'm happy.