Ok. And please explain to me, how does that apply to your point?
We know there were many monarchs who were homosixual/bisixual... but did they marry other homosixuals? No. So, what is exactly your point in bringing this up?



If by "jibe on my language" you mean the comment about really meaning "gay" instead of "non-main stream people", let's see...
First of all, I don't see homosixuals as "non-main stream" anymore.
Now, first thing that comes to mind as far as non-main stream is neo-nazis,.. would you like to see a game implementing neo-nazis just because it'd add to the realism as to how people behave?

+1

It would be advantageous for the game story-wise to see homosixuality in some cultures in Skyrim. The Spartans, for example, embraced bi-sixual tendencies. They viewed it as strengthening to be with another equally-strong warrior.

Cultures such as the Argonians would be perfect to really broaden this as they are already exotic. Imperials and Nords seem to be a bit more Western, and thus less accepting.

But yeah, why not? As showler said, treat it as with everything else: blended, and a part of the culture and mood of the game.

"If by "jibe on my language" you mean the comment about really meaning "gay" instead of "non-main stream people", let's see...
First of all, I don't see homosixuals as "non-main stream" anymore.
Now, first thing that comes to mind as far as non-main stream is neo-nazis,.. would you like to see a game implementing neo-nazis just because it'd add to the realism as to how people behave?
"

What?


How would that even be topical?
Are you deliberately trolling or something?

Reread my previous posts, including the one on the first thread. I have written as clearly as I could what I think about what the point here is.

Im not going to reply to any more replies by you, I have the feeling its a bit pointless.

This is an entirely different, but equally fascinating discussion, but yes. Discrimination is part of the human experience too, and like sixuality can add whole new levels of depth to a game. Imagine starting a character that is of a race that is widely discriminated against, and the kind of story and adventure you can build based on this. Adversity can add lots of elements to a game.

However, as I said, this is an entirely different discussion and should preferably be kept out of this thread. It's been going so well for almost a day

I was supposed to stay away from this debate, but I am going in. There is absolutely no problem with two guys living together in the game, and that one of them mention that they are together(indirectly) in dialogue. I just can't see any problems in that.

Such a difficult topic, kudos for the way you handled it with the OP. I'd rather not have any sixuality, bi, hetero, homo etc in my fantasy games. For two reasons, one, it doesn't interest me enough to have it in a game. Two, I'll allow my kids to enjoy games with fantasy violence, but no six. I determine which M games they can play. If it has a little language and some fantasy violence, like let's say Halo, it doesn't bother me as much as another game like Dragon Age, which took sixuality and embraced it in their game. From a purely selfish perspective, it would be a shame if kids out there couldn't play the game, due to content their parents found offensive. Most parents I know, find fantasy violence and some language(that the kids would here on primetime tv anyway) more acceptable than sixual content. Now, this is the U.S. and we do tend to be more uptight with sixuallity than in other parts of the world where violence is typically more offensive. It's such a hard topic. Different folks from around the world will have very different views on it, based on their culture and learned behavior. You're never going to please everyone. For me personally, I say keep six out.

I actually think that if there would be any culture that would be open to gay people, it would be the Imperials, considering they're based on the Roman Empire. Nords won't be as understanding though, since they're based a lot more on Vikings than on Spartans.

*Shrug* I rapidly read a few posts, and I have seen it said that it "adds nothing to the game". In that sense, it's correct. Just like realistic snow, moving leaves, cooking or farming, seeing NPCs going on about their business, etc., the existence of relationships of any kind between NPCs doesn't add anything to the game - just plain makes the world a bit richer, more alive. So yeah.


Agreed. Totally for being hit on - fond memories of Uncle Crassius here - but I'm dubious any relationship with the PC could end up feeling anything but cheesy.

Pisa50 : six in videogames is great, as long as it does not make the woman a sixobject(I'm a feminist). It is just people enjoying touching each other etc. There is a reason Dragon Age is not a game meant for kids. Yes, you americans are uptight about this subject, but I am not judging you. I am judging culture/religion.

It matters not to me whether the house is owned by Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve. I'm gonna steal everything that isn't nailed down either way

Somewhat more serious though, I can certainly see the appeal to someone of seeing a game that reflects who they are in a positive way. It's gotta be disheartening to feel alienated by a narrowly defined definition of normal in every aspect of your life, including your leisure fantasy time.

This really doesn't have anything to do about six, but about different sixualities. Big difference. I mean, they have tons of straight people in the game (married couples, etc.), but you never see them have six or anything. Therefore we don't need to worry about any possible homosixuals having six in the game either. The discussion is about whether or not Bethesda ought to implement people with different sixualities in the game.

The X-Men
And BTW, we do find TES touches on discrimination, between the Kahjiits and the Argonians.


The only reason why I brought up neo-nazis is because, when I was replying to the other post, I just couldn't think of anything else that could be considered as "non-main stream" in today's world without being illegal in the US

And to be clear: if you played the other TES games, I don't have to tell you that there are references to a myriad of themes like homosixuality, drug abuse, infidelity, corruption, religious bigotry, slavery, necrophilia, pedophilia, etc etc etc. I just don't think it is necessary to go too deeply into any of those ancillary themes to make the game compelling. And to be honest, knowing that these themes are dealt with in-game (albeit at a shallow level) when I see posts like the OP, I guess I assume what they are asking for is to go deeper into that particular theme, and I don't see the need for that.

I mean, if I'm playing the game, and I run into a male NPC and I have the option to ask if X place is dangerous, and the reply is "my mate/life-partner/husband went there once and he barely escaped alive" that does absolutely nothing for my gameplay experience other than letting me know I may need better armor and weapons to go to place X.

Kind of like when Barack Obama was elected President of the US. Some people would say "see? we don't discriminate. We now have a black president". Well, they still pointed out he was black

My opinion is, sixual diversity should not thrown in our faces... or exist pretty one-sided to entertain the masses of sixual deprived young boys. Yes, I'm always gettin' a bit angry when I see such relationships handled in the obscene way: The stereotypical "hot" lisbians or bisixual girls gettin it on to please heterosixual male gamers. NO! I don't want anything like that in my games... because I think it's pretty mean to us girls to throw such nasty images in our face...

And I'm a bisixual myself, so everything I said stems not from homophobia, but rather from hurt feelings! Seein' the fellow female gettin reduced to mere six objects is... like a slap in the face.

Arcade in fnv was a fine interpretation of a gay man, even Veronica as a lisbian. If they add it that'd be cool, I'm just glad they have black people, fnv had a severe lacking of them. Interracial relationships are great (obviously).

I respect your opinion, but you have a very subjective view of things. Who's the single largest target audience of these types of games? It's not me and it's not you. It's males in their teens thru mid-late 20's. What sells to them? six and by six, I don't mean six with other men, but wtih scantily dressed women. That's how you get your six object females in games. I don't recall any scantily dressed men in DF, MW or Oblivion. But in nearly every RPG you pick up, there is some hot wench, dressed to show cleavage. six sells and if it can be marketed to sell to the majority, that's what the company is going to do. I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but if you are going to cater to the less than 10% of gamers sixual interests, then perhaps we should cater to the wants of over 10% hard core gamers who want more depth instead of the direction of the TES series. I just don't think, from a business perspective that it makes sense. Not saying I agree with it, just saying it's business, not personal. But wtih subjects like politics, sixuality and religion, it gets hard to separate business from personal.

I've always been clear that it should be done subtly, if at all. I don't even want them to delve into the theme of sixuality; I just think the game has a lot to gain from including it as a part of NPC life, along with some form of natural relationships between NPCs. As for mentioning it in lore; that doesn't quite cut it, if that makes any sense. When I'm about my business in town buying ingredients, making weapons or whatnot, I'm not going to care about what the lore says, but how the characters interact.



Like I said; the discussion isn't supposed to be about six, just sixual diversity.

Well said (written)! Even though that's not entirely exactly what I've written earlier, it pretty much sums up my opinion of this matter.

I do not care about six in video games, but I think it's weird that it still is a controversial issue. I know that women often becomes sixobjects in games, and I strongly oppose that. I myself agree with you about more depth in games. Unfortunately six sells, and I am not a fan of that, but I think the time is ready for throwing old conservative norms out of the window(which is not the same as including six in everygame for profit!). Okay, I am norwegian, I am european. We may have a different view in some ways, so I am not going to querrel with you.

Sry, that I have dared to state my opinion. o.o

Great point. There were a few instances in Oblivion where hetero couples lived in the same house, but the painter was gone when you got there, the quest in the IC, the gal was already deceased when you were working for vampire hunters. Oblivion never really put couples together to act in concert with one another. If I was alternative and looking for fantasy homo-bi-hetero relationships in Oblivion, I could say the bouncer and the owner of the bloated float or whatever its name was were living together. Maybe the guy selling the house in Anvil was having crazy ghost six. This is such a silly conversation. Someone else said it and I'll paraphrase what I thought was a great point....If you want to represent this tiny population of people in the game, why not start representing every different type of person in the game? What makes alternative sixual relationships any better than any other type of person that isn't represented in the game? Again, I hope I'm not offending anyone, it's certainly not intended to do that. I'm done with this thread...good luck.

Wasn't there a gay chap in Oblivion? Or am I remembering something wrong?

And who says some of the npcs in past games weren't LGBT? Just because they don't harp on about it doesn't mean they aren't. :tongue:

Anyways, I don't think adding gay/bi people to the game should be something done purposefully just for inclusions' sake. Maybe there should be idle gossip in the streets concerning a character's sixuality? Or a same-six couple living together? As long as it's done properly, rather than feeling tacked-on.

The problem is that, as stated, the topic of sixual diversity is a pandora's box even without a discussion of six added to the mix. Since I'm interested in the topic, and feel that this thread (series) has been going so well so far, I'd hate for it to go too far astray and be closed and possibly gassed.

I'm pretty sure they'll add it, they added it to fallout so why not tes.

Well, a few people seem to be really uncomfortable with my opinion... in an other thread for example... gives me things to ponder about.
But I'll will drop it now, don't want add extra fuel to a already frowned upon controversy ... .