i have absoltely no recollection of that. which side fo the town was that on cause i thought i had stolen from every house in the game at one point or another.

Can't agree with you - there are some things in Morrowind that you can think of as implied sixual themes - CC, some books, that one quest about the girls unfortunate attempt on romance, and the glove lady... well and naked Nords If you squint hard enough it can pass for an attempt at live, well at last npcs start to develop on when it's needed for a quest.
But as far as Oblivion goes... sorry, but I can hardly remember even a reference about people having families... I think count Skingrad sad something about his dead wife in a vampire cure quest... And that's about all I can remember - I mean there was never even a mention of Martins mother for example, and I don't recall anything about any empress whatsoever... And so on and so forth.

it would be interesting but would a relationship between a nord and argonian or a khajiit be considered bestiality and looked down upon by the general population of skyrim?

MW again: Don't forget if you play a female, you get the option to kiss Nels Llendo. You know I did! :blush2:

There was the Lusty Argonian Maid book, the painting quest had a wife and husband, I recall a few characters being married and I'm sure I remember a quest somewhere where you help win someone's heart, though I could be remembering wrong. I also recall some subtle sixual allusions.

EDIT: And Pinarus Inventius was married.

Sorry it was not to your taste, but I personally like him quite a lot. It's a matter of preferences I suppose. And if you are expecting a game to have not only same six relationships, but although a pick of partners tho appeal to a wide audience than you are expecting to much on a romance part - while having a romance plot is great, the game is not about that, and 10 romance options for every orientation are not going to happen anywhere. Bioware did a good job, and a honest effort to include everyone.

That's not the popular opinion amongst most gay people who've played their games. And it was definitely not an "honest effort."

What quest is that?

Ashley and Kaidan were originally options for both genders, but that was cut sometime before release. Anyways, thats all off-topic.

The book was a ruminant of Morrowind, not something Oblivion team did on their own, the painting quest had some sort of partner only because you had to have someone give you the quest. Non of the people around you had any connection to each other if it was not required for a quest, which is the point - for a game to have living world and issues of diversity people have to be engaged in some kind of relationships regardless of weather you need a quest. And that is what misses. I mean they talk about crabs of all things, but never a mention of having to go home soon since his/her wife/husband is waiting! No couples ruing inns or shops together, no npcs sneaking off to see each other, the whole plain of live is missing.

Your sparse memory of married individuals should be evidence enough relationships were not notable at all in Oblivion, and when they were even mentioned it was only to further the plot of some quest.

Not actually true. I believe some people in Oblivion had secret affairs. Of course, all they did was walk into each other's houses and sleep, but still.

I know they were uncommon. The point I was arguing against was that it was not present in any form whatsoever.

To be honest, I'm over this sort of thing in games. I'm over six in games in general. It never adds anything, really, so there's really no point. As far as same six and interspecies couples, why not I guess. I don't care either way. I won't really like or dislike it. I'll probably barely even note it.





EDIT!: I'm over six in games. Not six as a whole. Reworded!

It's part of Redoran house quest line, a daughter of one of the councilors sneaks away with a guy who turns out to be a Telvani and gives her over to Neloth, and you have to rescue her and optionally can deal with the offender.

subby socks - Sorry if you feel that way. The romance felt solid enough to me, but than I'm bi, so Zevs point of view probably felt closer to my heart than to that of a gay community To each their own I guess. Now back to TES

I noted quite clearly in the OP that the discussion is not about six though

You can't have it both ways... either you want to "make it real" or not. Having a medieval setting in TES doesn't really help your cause. Think for example, the Holy Inquisition and the burning to death of homosixuals. Imagine the reaction to implementing that well-known historic fact into a TES game (which would probably cause much more of an uproar vis-a-vis the depiction of a woman being burnt because she's a witch, but I digress...)

Funny thing is, the Argonian Maid book in TES depicts inter-racial relationships somewhat accurately, in that the lords would incur into sixual relations with maids/slaves, but not marry them. Even among the same race, some unions were seen as no-no's (English-Irish-Scottish, Catholic-Protestant, etc...)

I want to play games like TES to fight ogres, dragons; loot the dead bodies of the enemies I killed, save the known world from evil daemons, shoot fireballs from my hands, etc.. not to delve in real life.

Well I firmly believe that our Morrowinds spiritual predecessor had a hot "romantic" threesomes with his lovely wife and best friend who apparently swings every way possible, but that's my believe, and I have one huge trashcan in my head Doesn't excuse Bethesda form adding actual social interaction thou.

I would love to see actual families and NPCs with relationships in Skyrim. sixuality and romantic relationships are a BIG part of life. Without it society wouldn't exist. As a biologist, sixual/reproductive behavior/influence is very apparent to me in life. I think the world will be more real with real relationships apparent between NPCs and I would expect varying sixuality to be a part of it. Just makes sense.

It's a fantasy setting. The devs can decide what the culture of Skyrim believes and behaves in regards to same six and interspecies relationships.

What I meant by the latter quote is that his comment could potentially end up sparking a pretty hefty and flamy discussion due to the nature of his comment. I wanted to nip that in the butt. I agree that I could have chosen better wording. The former comment is about world immersion; and wasn't me saying I need sixual diversity for that; but I do need some variation of natural interaction between NPCs; if done right, sixual diversity would just add to that for the same reasons the last quote I added to the OP mentions.

totally agree! i'm all for sixual diversity in Skyrim, i think it would add to the overall role-playing experience.

It'd be kind of cute to see npcs like the khajiit girlfriend you could get in Morrowind (and the 'dashing' dunmer bandit who'd take a shine to you if you played along with him). As for 'different sixual types.. well theres the aforementioned crassius curio (i found him quite hilarious!) and i believe there was a necrophiliac or two in oblivion.. erm.. but more 'flavor' among npcs is always welcome imo.

edit: i wouldn't mind seeing more 'house of earthly delights' type places either..

edit2: also there were a few quests where female npcs would attempt to seduce male characters as well.

edit3: there was also a male khajiit six slave.

so yeah there was a fair amount of sixuality in morrowind at least.

I will say one thing. I hope that the game is able to identify better if your a male or a female. Oblivion didn't really do that much and there was only one quest (The Siren's Deception) where if you were a different gender the quest would start out a little bit differently but ultimately end up the same. Hopefully NPC's will say for Example, "Greeting my lady" or "hello Sir what can I help you with".

And again with medieval Europe parallels... What makes people think that TES world and medieval Europe have anything in common aside form imperial architecture?

TES - has big cities. Medieval Europe - castles, no cities, the start of urban live marks the end of medieval time period (historical definition, not my).
TES - polytheistic, Medieval Europe - monotheistic.
TES - empire ruled by the emperor and council, strictly unified. Medieval Europe - feudal, that says it all.
TES - has magic, and a which is an adequate profession. Medieval Europe - inquisition and superstitions.
TES - army and Imperial legion, Medieval Europe - knights and banner man, again says ti all - vassal of my vassal is not my vassal I believe the saying was.

Should I go on? As you can see the socially nothing is even remotely similar, so no reason that there should be any persecution for homosixuality because medieval Europe had them..