So I have been roaming this forum for quite some time now and I can't remember if there has been a topic of this subject before. There probably is but I couldn't find it with the search function.

Anyway the question is: 'Will we be limited in doing stuff like lockpicking because our skill level isn't high enough like in Fallout 3?'

Hopefully.

Hopefully like in. I hope we will be limited in doing things or I hope that we won't be limited?

Hopefully things will require certain skill levels. Without that, skills would pretty much be useless.

I hope so, I had to get a mod for Oblivion because once you learn the trick to unlocking, security becomes useless, I could unlock very hard locks with a bit of patience just waiting for the right moment, even though my character only had like 10 security skill...

...and the skeleton key made it even easier then. Skill in Security was not needed. I unlocked things just like you, was able to hear when it was time to click.

I can't really say actually. It does add some realism that the ability to lockpick is not restricted by a number. On the flip side just like PerXX said: 'Without that, skills would pretty much be useless.'

I wouldn't like it if the skill level was "capped" as such in Fallout 3. I liked it in Oblivion how, the higher a lock level was, the more terribly difficult it was to pick (unless you had the skeleton key or the pause exploit, of course).

Locking me out of a lockpicking scenario or a hacking scenario just because my skill level wasn't high enough felt really "video gamey." Yeah, I know it's a friggin video game, but for all the talk of "immersion" on this board, that was the one thing that really ground by immersive gears. "Your skill level isn't high enough!" Well, WTF. Just because I *probably* can't do it, doesn't mean it *can't* be done. Let me at least TRY for fark's sake.

I see your point but I think it would have to much more difficult. Once you got used to lock picking it was easy at any level making the skill useless. I'd be up for that though if say I can attempt to pick a hard lock with a low skill level but the actual chance of me being able to do it being very slim/time consuming, that way it's like yeah I can try but I'll likely fail.

Also I would like for lock picking to be real time, it'd be much harder to pick a lock if you knew the game wasn't going to pause and give you all the time in the world to do it. This seems possible as Bethesda have said they're trying to cut down on moments where the world 'freezes' just for you.

I'm in pretty much total agreement. It should be relatively "easy" to pick an easy lock with a moderate amount of skill to draw from, while the opposite for "hard" levels. I like the idea of lots of time needing to be devoted to it, and the possible (read: likely) loss of lockpicking resources. This would be even better if set in real time, because then you could actually make an informed decision as to whether you want in that room bad enough to warrant an attempt on a difficult lock when there may be hostile NPCs around. Makes sense to me. :thumbsup:

I'm all but certain that lockpicking will resemble Fallout 3's to a great degree. There will be perks that will enable you to tackle more difficult locks, but I hope what that means is that more difficult locks will actually have more layers of complexity to them. I want to see a new minigame that's actually hard, and that integrates trap disarming and such into it. This of course assumes that there are traps. There better be traps, damn it. And lockpicking better also be realtime too.

That is exactly how I think about this too.

hard caps are terrible. skill thresholds are perfectly fine and understandable but if it's straight up YOU HAVE 49 LOCKPICK BUT THIS DOOR REQUIRES 50 SO [censored] OFF that's just dumb. that level of abstraction is unnecessary given modern tech.

i've said before that a better system would be to handle it like Oblivion, where you can pick the lock at any level, but (using Fallout's lockpick minigame as the example) have the actual difficulty of the lock scale dynamically and drastically to your lockpicking skill.

example: if you've got lockpick 5 then pretty much any lock is going to be really really hard and the sweet spot will be tiny and it'll take a lot of time to work it out. as you improve, the sweet spot gets bigger and bigger, until eventually you're at 100 and the sweet spot is huge and you can pick basically any lock with a flick of the wrist.

coupling this with different lock TYPES with actual cosmetic differences depending on the level of the lock would be really neat, too, utilizing the Fallout approach but with Oblivion's "picking several locks in succession" thing, so you manage to pick the lock but then you've got to do it again. again, your skill would widen the sweet spot and as you get better at lockpicking you'd be able to fly through the most complicated locks like a pro.

making this all happen in real-time would be a massive improvement, too. a budding thief shouldn't be allowed to fumble with a lock for an hour with no repercussions.

Impeccably said. I'm impressed. :clap:

Toss in traps and I'll love this.

i'd definitely like traps but i'm not sure if they should be a separate minigame or just an extra step in the lockpicking process, which if failed would cancel out, wound you, and probably alert somebody nearby with the noise it makes.

i guess making it an extra thing before the lockpicking process would make more sense. there could be a higher-level perk that would let you bypass simple traps, too.

actually i conceptualized this system before perks were even announced. i should take them into account and revise it accordingly.

ed actually perks could really just let you bypass simple locks completely; instead of having to go into the minigame and quickly fly through you'd be able to just open the door like you'd had a key.

extra step imo.

First you disarm the trap, which would be a slightly different mini-game than lock-picking. As per your idea of having more variety, we could have stuff with multiple traps and locks, with ease of disarming the convoluted mess alleviated by perks. Locks and traps should also vary from place to place. Mages guild stuff would have magical locks (requiring magical lockpicks or any with perks) and magic based traps, while a shop keeper might have several regular locks on his chest of goods. What this would mean for magic users is that you'll have to hold the spell key down, magika use increasing to some degree per second needed to open the chest/door. Failure there would cause the whole trap to spring with a buff due to the magika usage.

I'd rather it not be a strict skillcheck. More like making it incredibly difficult to do something (like picking a lock) at a level beyond your skill.

This would be sweeeeeet! :thumbsup:

diggin all this stuff.

maybe we should be making this game bro

Skill checks are boring.

Guilds should send you on a quest to test your skills like the thieves guild did in OB, or should have you do other tasks in a guild hall to prove you're merrit. Like for the mages guild instead of just letting anyone in, or saying you can't join till you have a 25 in 3 magic schools - since it's going to be at a college have people take a writen test to get in. Or a magic dual with a teacher to prove you have the knowhow. There's a lot of imaginative ways to check someone's skill, instead of just having the computer look at the numbers and then give a yes or no answer.

Agreed. If one can show aptitiude regardless of their experience (or "number" in this case), they should be admitted.

The skill checks ARE checking your experience, a weak old mage would likely not be admitted to the fighters guild

I understand this, and agree. I'm simply saying that if one can show a degree of aptitude and ability to learn the skills necessary to be an active participant, it's better than freely admitting all or preventing certain people from joining based on a number check.

Or maybe I'm just dumb and don't know what I'm talking about. :shrug:

:sadvaultboy: I never did pick up the trick of doing locks with low skill. If I'm really "off", I can still blow 10+ picks on an Average (or even Easy, if I'm really having a bad day), and find the Skeleton Key invaluable. Guess I svck.

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As for the main topic.... yeah, something in between the two systems (OB & FO3) would be nice. I understand that some people don't like being able to "player skill" their way through locks, but the set break points in FO3 were quite silly at times. But my experience with Oblivion's lockpicking makes me wary of "make it lots harder! OB was too easy!". Not everyone finds it that way.