I have just started playing Daggerfall and realised that you need to hit a certain skill requirement to join the mages guild. It makes absolute sense, never understood why a huge Orc with absolutely no knowledge of magic could just pop into a guild hall and join.

Do you think it's something that could be considered for Skyrim or would it put the more casual gamers off?

Don't like the idea myself. If I remember correctly, short blade was a skill for the temple of Dibella. Never got that. I think a rational explanation for not having it is any guild will let you join as a sort of patsy, give the new kid the rubbish jobs, until they've proved themselves. ( Rats! Must be some kind of initiation. ) You rise through the ranks by being useful, not being skilled. Just my opinion of course.

Skills should absolutely play a much bigger part in the various questlines. If not as a requirement to join then at least as various requirements to increase in Rank.

I say put it back in for the same reason you stated. Sometimes too much freedom gets a bit silly when the best the archmage can do is a basic Flare. :laugh: :tongue:

I like it. Morrowind had a similar system where you couldn't advance to certain ranks without certain attribute/skill levels in the various guilds.

I'm all for skill requirements - in TES you can rise any skill you want, so if you want to join the guild you will be able to, and I think it should require a bit of work

I found it odd how you could play the Mages guild in Oblivion without casting one spell, whereas in Morrowind you had to raise certain skills to rise in the ranks, so I hope they implement something like that in Skyrim, it was far too easy to finish the guilds in Oblivion.

I would say you will need a certain skill to advance in rank, not to join. this to keep 30 intellegence orcs from becoming arch-mage.

Very good points. I've not played much of Morrowind so didn't realise it was the case there too.

I hope it's been made this way for Skyrim. Oblivion's didn't make any sense, you could join the mages guild without actually having any magic abilities.

It could be good, although I think it would be cooler if it was an actual skill test. Like some kind of maze that you could only get through with spells, or being told the name of a spell that you have to find and cast successfully in front of them. It would make more sense than them just looking at you and knowing that your Restoration is 50, and people that really want to could get their magicless Orc through the guild, but it'd be more of a challenge because you'd have to know what the test is and collect the right scrolls to cheat with, or bribe the examiner. Combat guild promotions could involve being challenged by someone of that rank to a non-lethal fight.

Point taken, but this could lead to a partial return of the 10 minor skill rise per level to get +5/5/5 attributes in Oblivion, which many felt was one of the worse aspects of the game, with a possible scenario where you've done several success quests for the thieve's guild, but instead of increasing your sneak on the next mission, which would happen naturally, you end up having to spend 10 minutes real time sneaking back and forth in someone's bed room to get your sneak up to get the next mission.

at first i didn't like the idea but after reading the reply's i think that you should be able to join the guilds with no requirements and do stupid tasks for them to build your levels... and you shouldn't be able to get promotions without being a certain level of skills that pertains to that guild, and just doing the quest wont necessarily raise your skills you have to use those skills to gain in them... we all know you can hack your way threw almost all of the mages quests but you shouldnt get magic bonus' for doing so. cuz i agree you shouldn't be able to become the arch mage and only be able to perform 10pt flares. so if you do the quest and use the magic skills you should get a bigger boost of those skills and if you dont us magic skills to complete the quest then you have to go out and raise those skill levels on your own (at the normal level raising pace)

Those are great ideas. I love the idea of a mage maze.

Definitely have to second that. Something like Henantier's Dreamworld, the fighter's guild disables your spells for their testing ground, the College of whispers fails you if you draw a blade or whatever.

Looks like no one here knows the points of guilds. Guilds are, like we all know, a place for people of a certain trade, in this case magic, to get together as an organization and work together to earn money and trade secrets, but they are also used, and apparently not as widely known, to "TEACH" new people the trade. Most don't know the first thing about their trade when they first get into it, unless it's been in the family a long time. I hope this helps it to make more sense to you.

I'd like to have skill requirements to join, but not so much in the way of skill requirements to advance. It would be better for the quests to require you to use the skills the guild emphasizes.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jeanne_Frasoric
I think this supports my side of the argument. Sometimes it's not what you know, but who.

Thanks for the info.

I know what they're for and that's why I said the other idea were good too because I understand everyone should be able to 'have a go' at stuff.

I also thought maybe for immersion (though possibly not practical to implement) is that if you don't do any mage/fighters guild quests for a certain time, you have to pass some sort of test to gain access again. I know there's holes in the argument but if you left somewhere for 2 years, would they welcome you with as open arms (and quests) as quickly as they did if you'd only been gone a day?

Might be asking a bit much though. :whistling:

Yes for skill requirements on both joining and advancing in ranks (shoudl there be any ranks, that is). Makes more sense and gives more unique feeling on the guilds.

For Skyrim, I don't think skills should be specifically what is looked at as a requirement to join a guild. Rather the AI should recognize you as a magic user or a thief or someone who is proficient in melee combat to be able to join the associated guild. Obviously skills would play a role in that but so would your experiences.

I'd love to see a return of skill requirements for advancement. In Oblivion it was pretty stupid when my Nord Barbarian became Archmage just because I chopped down KoW with a giant axe and had almost zero magical aptitude (apart from some Restoration spells) :facepalm:

It would be like someone joining Bethesda and becoming Senior Producer in a week without having any aptitude whatsoever on how to make games :whistling:

Being Arch-mage, Gray fox, Fighters guild master and listener all at one time... how is that even logical?

I think that if this were the case then the incentive would be to spread out your skills so you can join all of the guilds you possibly can. Whereas a 'free to join' guild there would only be an incentive to improve the important (to you) skills. After the initial and inevitable try out the guilds binge. But that's just my 2 cents. I'm sure there's supporting psychology/opinions on the other side of the argument. I'm sure bethesda can figure it out. It's not my job afterall!

I think they should be required to advance, but surely the very point of the mage's guild is the education of mages?