agreed

I think the purpose of weapon swap with the 5+1 limit is for a couple reasons.

1: Switching between ranged and melee or destruction and healing or whatever comba you want.

2: This is a not a cursor driven game and 1-6 keys are easy to hit with your left hand so it keeps the action in the middle of the screen and not on your ui as was intended.

Are you referring to the XP-gain by bar thing? If so, then that just further proves my point, because that's another ridiculous feature.

These are the main reasons but the mechanic falls short for the reason Mavkiel provided. It doesn't work well when wanting to use only 1 type of weapon. You get 10 powers and 2 ultimates but with one weapon it becomes cumbersome to swap and also difficult to know what bar you have active. Mods will help this but the fact remains it seems redundant with this setup especially if you only want to use 1 ultimate. Sadly the system is set up essentially forcing you into a hybrid play style if all one wants is 1 weapon and 1 skill theme. One can work around it of course but it simply seems tedious and more limiting.

I am ok with this however as players are expected to build many skill sets and themes out of their class and everyone has to deal with the same mechanic. I played a resto staff NB caster in beta and used 2 rstaffs. I used 2 ultimates anyway which means swapping bars makes more sense but I had to remember what weapon I had up and the second bar became mostly support and non-main rotation abilities. The main issue here isn't about having too few powers but the weapon swap and far too many do not recognize the main issue they are complaining about.

No. Toggled powers are abilities with full time benefits while they are turned on. It makes zero sense that you gain this ability without it being on your bar. People would simply load their second bar with toggles and be walking buff bots while still having an active bar fully loaded with other abilities. It is a side affect of having a 2 weapon systems like this. The payment of a toggle is the (usually) reduction of total magicka AND having that ability on an active bar. Powers with durations do not count as you paid the resource cost and the benefit runs out over time.

Sure i understand what your refering to but i still think this setup is the better alternative without going to full cursor play. The way i look at it is they could have given us the full 10 slots but you would have to use a modifier key to keep from going the cursor route. I think the current system using a single keystroke is alot easier then a modifier.

From the start the developers have, as it seems, been trying to keep the UI as unobtrusive as possible. The developers have set things up so a player needs to be more focused on the animations on screen more than focused on the key board or controller.

As well your skills, be them class, weapon, armour and all the rest are only improved through use; a feature I personally like.

With the addition of more slots in your action bar... would you, yes you, the person reading this, would you think that people would take longer or would it shorten the time it takes to level up a skill line? I am split on a longer / shorter time span..More skills mean I would use specific ones less, but then there are readily available if I wanted to use them; so they get used... I am still not sure.

Why not just tie the extra buttons to 6-0?

As i posted earlier because you cant reach those easily with just the left hand while playing the screen and not your ui (or staring at your keyboard) as was their intent.

Actually i remapped my ultimate to the 6 key because i prefer all abilities on my numbers and that is the last one i can reach easily without looking.

So what stops you from being a walking buff bot in WoW where you have like, five thousand ability slots on your screen ?

Oh that's right lol, it's the number of available buffs per class.

I would't add more skill slots, but instead, I would add a "skill set swap" per weapon. So, in the end, we would have 4 * (5+1) = 24 skills slots. The reason is that I'd like to have diferent set of skill for the same weapon, depending on the situation. Do I need AoE damage? Or single target damage? This way I can have both, and still be able to use my other weapon with its 2 skill sets.

I actually use a mmo mouse and can easily reach many more combinations of skills. Even the games people say the UI plays you I could play with the UI turned off easily. This is only an issue with those only using kb + 2 button mouse which is rare in the pc gaming world. It is a reason but likely a lesser one.

I believe the system is far more tied to how passives work. Yes ZOS wants an easy to access UI and combat interaction but balance is based far more on what passives remain active while accessing skills than skills alone. With 10-12 buttons available at all times what passives become active? Every passive associated with the powers you have on the bar? What if you have powers from 10 or more skill trees active? Does this mean you have ALL passives working from 10-12 skill trees at once? That would be hella OP.

The system works as a system of checks and balances and just like the USA government it can be work beautifully or be bogged down by it's own limitations. It is the player who has to find a setup that works with the existing system.

Why are you comparing a class based game with an open skill system game? Are you saying it would make sense for Wow to allow you to access abilities from all 3 talent trees at once? That is basically the comparison you are trying to make.

Well I agree with you to a point, you can't just have toggles with no downside. But I mean that's where the balancing comes in isn't it? And that's also why we need more skill slots. It will just further destroy diversity, because some things, like Magelight, are close to must-haves for alot of casters. Having a system like this, with too few short cuts, and having skills that almost any character of a given class will want to invest in, will just further make all sorcs look and play the same. And as we've seen on numerous occasions before, nerfing the abilities would work but it should be a last resort, because most devs always strive towards balancing by boosting and changing positively.

The skills that currently have a "Effect boosted by number of skills slotted"-component should have that component changed into "Skill augmented by skill tree level". Otherwise many people will simply pick the cheapest, lowest level abilities just for the bonuses and then never use the actual skills. The toggles should be placeable either on any short cut bar, or simply a seperate bar, intended for toggles and buffs, that way we not only gain more diversity, but we get a UI that is still clean, and also seperated, so if you don't want to, you don't have to mix buffs with attacks. I wanted to try out many skills, but chose not to simply because I didn't want to lose any of the vital things I already had, things that made the gameplay so much more fun. And we're all in it for the fun. As I wrote in the beta servey when proposing this solution "This way you'll be running around the world going 'Woah!' what was that? I've never seen that spell before!". Just because people have more options.

The fact that you have to make choices is the whole point.

I too have been playing mmo's since EQ and i did try one of those mice but really didnt like it and settled for a more conservative 5 button one. My thumb dexterity wasnt good enough. I agree about the passives but i believe since they were targetting the potential tes fans and especially the non mmo ones at that, they would assume most of those wouldnt have a high button mouse.

MMO/gaming mouse isn't really needed. Heck rebinding some keyboard keys would open up several buttons. In swtor for example I had q be a sneak attack that requires stealth. I had z be a snare. This would allow me to still use w,a,s,d for movement if I so desired.

I haveto agree that needing to have another weapon of the same type is [censored] stupid and should be changed, it dosen't change the fact that the slots are there and can be used even if the method is unintuitive.

I also remapp the hell out of every mmo i play. That does remind me this game really needs to have an "import setup/keybinds" option for alts.

I was reminded about the skill tree passives that say "increased by number of 'skill line' abilities slotted" and this makes it tricky to add more slots. I wonder if the programmers painted themselves into a corner on that one, but I am sure there is a way to cap that and keep the same balance while just allowing more options. I would be contents with two more slots, a hard cap on the number of slotted synergy allowed at 5 er 6 if Ultimate is counted which I think it is, and everyone is using more spells. People are doing that anyway, only they have to hit the weapon swap key to pull it off. It is already possible, but what logic or game structure mechanic says that the games balance and character flavor is perserved by making players hit a button to use a wider selection of spells for thier build? It may indeed boil down to that # of slotted synergy but my idea would be to cap it and bring on the complex builds. Two more spells isn't going to throw the games combat into chaos unless those synergy passives are left unchecked. Another good point was toggle spells , whose power is kept in check by the # of spell slots I believe, although all players still need mana to cast, so I believe that keeps the whole player base honest. Still only one spell can be cast at a time and only until the resource is gone.

I respect the opinion of any naysayers to this thread, but honestly, could you say that more spells available per hotbar would ruin the combat mechanics of this game? This game is so amazingly awesome combat-wise that the only complaint I can come up with is that I want more of it available to me. That is a statement in itself, and there is not a player out there whose build decisions will not be in some way effected by the 5 slot UI shackling, whether it is in chosing to unlock, what to slot, what ultimate to use, or how to engage mobs or PvP ers alike. It does change the way players think but more often than not, it will be in a frustrating, limiting way, and seldomly in a "I am glad we are all finding our specialization" way. It does make the players stick to a specialization, and it is part of the game as it is now, but would you not still feel the same if a few more slots were added? Everyone can benefit from it and there are valid points on both sides of the argument, but it is my opinion that the pros for more slots outweigh the cons on this one.

Unfortunately, I think the passive system and aspects of combat might have to be tweaked to make it work and it may be a while before TESO gets an overhaul like that. Realistically, we will see some significant time as is until sufficiant data is collected and interest and feedback is logged and then we might see a change like that. The current combat system is based on the 5 slot method and players are swapping, which is rough for me, since for obvious reasons this favors casters/ranged who are less likely to take hits in PvP while switching for an alternate slot benefit. Melee has a fraction of a second less time for this switch over, casters must still move, but less so when first engaging (reasonably). That is the advantage of ranged and this is more apparent without target locking. This last point is arguable and I don't think that it alone is a reason to change the current system, but it does make the gameplay a little smoother during PvE content (PvP is different, not many can stand at range and just cast). None of my statements are complaints, of course, because I am in love with this MMO, they are just preferences and I think ESO would benefit from the addition of the extra slots (ill say +2 slots just as a reasonable amount that I would be content with) more than it would the absence of.

I'm curious, now.

Is finding an identical (or near-identical) weapon for the second slot really *that* much more punishing than finding one quality 'primary' weapon and an equivelant-quality 'secondary' weapon?

I agree with your post Venitas, I accomplished it during Beta, but I came back on to add to my previous post on this subject, that the swap is more punishing on Melee/bow , than it is on non-staff based casters. If Staff casters are using alot of light/heavy attacks or staff related attacks, then they feel the difference as well but it favors ranged, class or other based ranged characters, who likely don't feel the pinch of alternate weapon equipped as much. It just points more towards the need for a few more slots to support characters who wish to specialize in one type of playstyle or role respectively, and wouldn't hurt players that are content either way.

That's a good question. It really depends how end-game gear acquisition is handled. I guess it is more of an inconvenience for people who want to specialize in a single weapon-type, because I feel these players would already be compromising utility that can be found with a secondary weapon (like ranged attacks/CC/healing), so requiring a second weapon of the same type is a little strange logically.

5 + 1 on primary weapon

5 + 1 on secondary weapon

Quickslot

Dodge (4 directions)

Block

Bash/CC break

Light Attack

Heavy Attack

If you think you only have 5 skills, that's your failing, not the game's.

Haha..."dodge"?

I cant take your post seriously. WEre talking about active COMBAT slots for active, usable abillities.

Try again rofl.