What perks would an armor skill carry?

I'm hoping they're gone. Seems like the skill of a smith will govern armor perks.

"Marksman" has it's own skill because it is awesome.I cannot say the same about "hand to hand".I would describe "hand to hand" as useless.With all the weapons and magic in TES scrolls universe and im gonna fight a dragon with my bare hands?
How many people want to become a master of hand to hand? Im guessing less than 5% of players.



I agree that athletics and acrobatics should be combined,but I strongly disagree that hand to hand is more important than security.I guarantee the majority of players used security much much more than hand to hand.
Sneak is not the same thing as security.Two totally different things actually,but if they do combine them I will not complain.
The only way I could see hand to hand being it's own skill is if they made it completely bad ass,with aesome perks and cool finishing moves.However I dont see that happening.

To whoever said that it made zero sense to merge security and sneak.. Think about this. When was the last time you used a lockpick without sneaking? Perhaps in dungeons and the like if you're a big warrior that's not lurking in the shadows anyway but can be bothered to unlock chests for treasure.. But mainly lockpicking equates to you being able to sneak into peoples' houses and shops and steal the good stuff.

ah so if the skill is useless why not tak it out? what if i was to say i thought marksman was useless? should that mean it goes away? if no then dont use the whole 'cause i dont lik that skill' reason.

hav u played FO3/NV? h2h is improved alot through the perks and there was alot of them. and u hav to remember perks are whats causing less skills so u hav to think what skills giv out the most perks. which goes to say security would more than likely not give many perks since its so limited.

COMBAT,one handed,two handed,block,armor,athletobatics,dual weild.
Im not saying these will be the 6 combat skills,but I am saying that there are other options than hand to hand.




Yea,I never use sneak for sneak attacks.They are 2 different things.I picked many locks while not sneaking.Call me crazy but I just didnt care if an ogre saw me lockpicking a chest in a cave.

I never said take it out.I said it should be merged wih another skill.(2 handed I believe is what I said),and if you said marksman was useless you would have many people not happy with that statement.I said hand to hand is useless because I know only a few people tops are gonna say otherwise.I know how unpopular it is.I dont think it should go away either.I just dont think it warrants it's own skill.This is just my opinion and I will respect the fact that you seem to like hand to hand.Im not starting a petition to get rid of hand to hand or anything.

Yes I played FO3 and I liked it,the hand to hand fit that game alot better with VATS and all.I dont see how left punch and right punch will be enjoyable in Skyrim.

As for the OP and my opinion on the 18 skills here goes:
Warrior
-one handed
-two handed
-dual weild
-block
-armor(heavy and light)
-smithing
Mage
-alteration
-conjuration
-destruction
-illusion
-restoration
-enchanting
THEIF
-sneak
-security
-speechcraft
-alchemy
-athletobatics
-archery

Right, well, turning people into living pin-cushons was pretty lame if you ask me. And guess what they did, instead of cutting marksman they improved it. With gauntlets that let you enchant them to deal offencive damage and other weapons for the hand to hand skill, it could be very awesome as well. Maybe that's just what they did, made it better instead of getting rid of it.

I didn't say hand to hand was more important than security,i said it would have more perks as a skill.
Not aimed at you: But i wish people would stop saying hand to hand is pointless because of dragons.
1: there are lots of enemies besides dragons.
2: Hand to hand is lethal
3: Hand to hand is fun ( would be much better now because of the animations and the intenseness of close quarters combat ).
4: If we had claws or other hand to hand weapons thats even more powerful. ( add poison to that )
5: You are more dexterous with hand to hand,you can use your fingers and hands in way that someone holding a weapon can't.
6: Hand to hand is NOT just punching...Throws,grabs,holds,kicks,counters,disarming,speed,using enemies force against them,many things are good about hand to hand.
If it was done right,animation wise,with more variation,i'd bet my sweet bum cheeks people would use it more,or try monks etc.
7: People like to roleplay,you don't have to do the main quest....i may want to roleplay a bar fighter,monk,or whatever....i don't have to be a kickarse dragonborn in my 5th-6th playthrough.
8: hand to hand combined with shouts,stealth and magic,would be great.also = dead dragon.
9: i like it...i want it to stay.
10: other creatures use hand to hand: trolls,spriggins,werewolves,vampires...in fact in oblivion your hand to hand skill went up as a vampire.
Khajiits and argonians should be good at it also,because they have claws.

Personally, I think you are the greatest hero in the world if you take down a [censored] dragon with your bare hands. That aside, I think it's obvious hand to hand will be both 1 and 2 handed. Anything wrong with charming someone with one hand and punching them in the face with the other?

The only way I see no separate Hand-to-Hand skill is if we get both of the following:

1. Separate Heavy Armour and Light Armour skills.
2. Separate Sneak and Security skills.

In that case, Athletobatics fits into combat (with One-Handed, Two-Handed, Block, Smithing, and Heavy Armour), and the Stealth skills are (Sneak, Security, Archery, Light Armour, Speechcraft, Alchemy).

If there's a single Armour skill, then Hand to Hand will take the place of Light Armour.

If there's a merged Sneakurity skill, then Hand to Hand will take the place of Security.

Or, at least, that's what I think is most likely. After all, what are the other options? Mercantile? Well, maybe, given the talk about town economies. Anything else? I don't think Mercantile is more likely than Hand-to-Hand, and I can't think of any other options.

:stare:
Never say that.

Depending on how the perks work, I think it could work about as well as Oblivion's keeping the two skills separate. At least, it won't decrease character customisation to the extent that getting rid of Medium Armour did - Oblivion didn't really have anything to distinguish Orcish armour from chain armour (say).

Ok we know for certain they nuked light armor acrobatics atheletics hand to hand and mysticism.

With all the new traps its a given sneak and security are seprate and with the new economy its s given speechcraft and mercantile are seprate.

We know all of magic..

We know stealth now as its simply sneak security mercantile alchemy speechcraft archery..

We dont know all of combat as we only know one handed two handed smithing and block.. we only know block because of a perk from block involving shields and elemental resists while blocking with them.

So we know likely 5 of the 6 skills as one likely has to be armor...

Expect the 6th combat skill is tactics and involves any followers and group combat. As both those aspects are very much changed in skyrim.

Dual weild could easily be its own skill.



They could combine heavy and light armor into one skill.So yes your armor skill in general could increase as far as your stats are concerned whether you wear heavy or light but through your perks you can master the one you want,This would not upset me personally.

I don't think we know for certain that they got rid of Light Armour and Hand-to-Hand. In fact, I'm not even sure that they've gotten rid of both Acrobatics & Athletics (they've said things which suggest their removal, but we don't know for certain).

It's also not clear that Security will have anything to do with the dungeon traps. They didn't in Oblivion.

I don't think there'll be a tactics skill. How would that be managed by a skill? I don't think you'll really have any sort of deep control over your companions in combat - at least, not to the extent that the game needs a separate skill for it.



So what would be the perks? It's at least clear that Hand-to-Hand could have a bunch of useful perk-trees: perks for direct damage moves, perks for dodging and evading, perks for disarming an enemy...

LOL,are you suggesting that hand to hand would have better perks than dual weilding?
I dont create perks but im sure the people that do can come up with better perks for dual weilding over hand to hand.

What?....we don't know that for certain at all...how can you say we know this and know that,when infact we DON'T know at all yet,it's all guess work.
Speechcraft is mercantile,there is no need for mercantile. If your good with your tongue,as talking getting info,your equally as good at doing the same with people in shops etc.
Speechcraft covers both. To have speechcraft and mercantile is pointless. You don't barter with sign language,you use charm/speech = mercantile useless.

I don't think "better" is the right way to look at it. The point rather is whether there would be enough perk-trees sufficiently distinct from another to warrant a separate skill.

The point I'm making is that, if there were a Hand-to-Hand skill, it's pretty clear that there could be a few perk trees doing different things for that skill. It's less clear what those perk trees would be for a Dual-Wield skill. And the response of "well I don't know, but that's not my job" is unsatisfactory in this context. Presumably the point of this discussion is to speculate on what the skills are, but to also offer reasons for postulating some skills rather than others. Given the perks system, it seems like one principle we should be using in our speculation is to ask "If this were a skill, what would the perks be?"

Of course, you could change the rules and just say "I'm just saying it could be a skill, I didn't say what the perks might be", but then all bets are off. It's not clear what sorts of constraints there could be for suggesting some skills rather than others (or at least, none come to mind which help the case for there being a separate dual-wielding skill).

Is it confirmed that the weapon types (I.E.: Blade, Blunt, Axe, etc.) and the armor types (Heavy Armor, Light Armor) have been condensed into 1 Handed / 2 Handed Combat, and Armor?

Well we know one handed and two handed are confirmed as skills,thus they must have enough perk trees.I dont see how dual weilding wouldnt have enough perk trees.

Weapons, yes. No news yet on armor.

Let me try to put the debate this way. I say that the last combat skill is more likely to be Hand-to-Hand. You're saying that it's at least as likely that it's Dual-Wielding. To help settle this, I propose that we look at what the perks might be for those skills. But it's more than just asking whether Bethesda could design some or other perks for those skills. I don't dispute that Bethesda could have come up with some sort of perks for dual-wielding. I'm proposing a stronger constraint. We should try to specify what those perks might be. I've tried to do that with Hand-to-Hand.

So now, I guess what I'm doing is putting the ball in your court. I'm saying: here is a constraint that we should try to meet, namely that we should be able to specify some perk-trees for the skill. I've tried to do that for Hand-to-Hand. If we can't come up with any for Dual-Wielding, then I'm inclined to think that Hand-to-Hand is more likely than Dual-Wielding. Which is not to say that I'll turn out to be right - you might well turn out to be right. But at this point, we don't really have much else to go on. :shrug:

Ugh, not a fan of that. This is the first change that I've heard that I'm not a fan of.

On the flip side one could argue that a dual wielding skill could be merged into one handed skill. A small branch that would be added to each one handed weapon perk tree that increases the effectiveness of dual wielding with that weapon. That, and everyone would be forced to take that skill, unless their focus was on two handed weapons, bows or they used both hands to use magic.

Hand to hand could have perk tree's for bare fists, fists with gauntlets on them, and other fist related weapons. The main reason why hand to hand couldn't be merged into one handed or two handed combat would be because fists can be considered both a one handed or a two handed weapon. Some moves take both hands, other's take just one. Choosing what moves would increase the one handed skill and other moves that increase the two handed skill would lead to unneccessary frustration, and would demand a perk tree for both one handed moves for hand to hand and two handed moves for it.

It's not quite as bad as it seems. The one-handed skill might seem generic, but it then has individual perk lines for swords, axes, and maces (daggers are one-handed weapons, but their perks are under Stealth). These perks make it so each weapon has it's own play style (maces ignore some armor, axes cause bleeding damage, and so on) making weapon choice more than the aesthetic thing it was in past games.

Overall, I'd say we're coming out ahead with this.