Skill Trainer Mini-Games

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:18 pm

In a mostly unrelated thread about http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1163316-archery-range-competitions/, 'remraF' posted what I thought was a really good idea.

This sounds like a really cool idea. It would also be cool if trainers had you do something related to the skill in order to gain the new level (hit the bullseye 10 times, or something like that). Not sure how this would work in other skills though.


A proper discussion of the concept seemed to deserve its own thread, and while another poll is the last thing anyone needs, I thought it'd be interesting to get a general idea of what the forums think.

(I searched, and failed to find a relevant and specific thread on this topic. I also don't know the status of skill trainers in Skyrim and whether or not they'll even exist. As an aside, is there any information on this yet?)


The subject is: NPC-given skill training. Expanding upon remraF's post, it occurred to me that several, if not all of the skills in Skyrim could be trained by NPCs -- for a price, as before -- with the additional requirement to complete a small mini-game sequence appropriate to the skill to be trained. Presumably, success at the mini-game would result in a successful skill increase, while failure would result in no skill increase, with the cost of training still being paid. Some examples:


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Archery Skill
The PC must successfully hit several targets with a ranged weapon, within a time limit. At higher skill levels (tiers of 0-24, 25-49, 50-74, 75-100?), the difficulty of the targets increase and the time limit decreases.

Smithing Skill
The PC must strike different areas of a heated metal item on an anvil (current target areas might be highlighted red), within a time limit for each target area. At higher skill levels, more target areas must be struck and their time limits decrease.

One-Handed & Two-Handed Weapon Skills
The PC must destroy undefended (highlighted) areas of a rotating combat dummy with a melee weapon. At higher skill levels, the undefended areas can sustain more damage and the dummy moves faster.

Block Skill
The PC must correctly time blocks against a rotating combat dummy. At higher skill levels, the dummy moves faster.

Destruction Skill
The PC must destroy moving targets using any spell(s) of the Destruction school, within a time limit for each target. At higher skill levels, the targets can sustain more damage and their time limits decrease.

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The NPC trainers could walk the PC through the mini-games with voiced tips and suggestions.

Admittedly, I don't have strong examples of how this would work for some skills, but I could come up with comprehensive systems for any skill given a little more time. But since the inclusion of skill trainers and their implementation is pure speculation and discussion, I didn't want to design a game system just to create the thread.

What do you think?
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Jennie Skeletons
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:36 am

No.

Minigames are less fun than playing Skyrim. I want to play Skyrim, not minigames.
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Monika Fiolek
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:44 pm

No. I don't like mini games at all. However I would appreciate if when you buy a skill up, the npc actually tells you something related to the skill (like Gothic 2).
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Genocidal Cry
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:24 am

Nah, minigames aren't what I find enjoyable.

Rather than doing minigames for a trainer, I liked Oblivion's trainer quests for the master trainers, so hopefully they'll construct quests for actually using trainers in the first place.
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Jessica Colville
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:00 am

Honestly I hope for less player games, not more.
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Taylor Bakos
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:57 pm

Decent idea, i'd be fine with it either way. but i would rage HARD if i didnt get my money back if i failed it so a better way of doing it would be make it so you level up more the better you do? i don't know just an idea.
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Michelle Chau
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:38 pm

It makes sense, it's appropriate, even the part with the money being lost. I mean, it's your fault that you can't learn, the trainer did his best :biggrin: But it would be reasonable if he lowers the price with every new attempt.
The only thing that would bother me would be the tasks being repetitive. I need big variation to keep interest in this kind of collateral activity.
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Kari Depp
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:26 am

Instead of doing this every time you get skill training, there could be one of these minigames/challenges to persuade a master trainer to teach you.

That way it would be something related, not like "You want some armorer training? Sure, but to prove you are worthy go get me six glass cups."
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quinnnn
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 am

Honestly this is really horrible idea. Its your character going to train that skills, not you. I expect Skyrim to be RPG not some twitchy action FPS.
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Joe Bonney
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:01 pm

Any kind of mini-game in this area would annoy the hell out of everyone. A more strict limit on training sessions per level would be a much better thing.
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Elisha KIng
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:35 am

If they could be something akin to how FO3 did lockpicking, that'd be fine; it was a good balance between having the character's skill matter and giving the player some input to completing the activity, all fairly unintrusive and intuitive, and all without feeling too minigame-ey.

But I just don't think its possible to compress the activity of training into that simplified balance. It would be very intrusive, because training is not as trivial as lockpicking. It'd be difficult to give the character's skill much weight, as the minigame should sensibly be about the same difficulty to represent constantly moving from relative skill point [x] to skill point [x + 1]. And because it should be about the same difficulty, it will get repetitive quickly. Coupled with the intrusive quality, the repetitiveness would begin to pull the player out of the minigame's purpose, removing the very point of the minigame to begin with.
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CHangohh BOyy
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:12 pm

Interesting.

For some skills it would be cool.

Kind'a wierd how we instrantly learn these skills through a money transaction.
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:56 am

Interesting.

For some skills it would cool.

Kinda wierd how we instrantly learn these skills through a money transaction.

Yeah i never liked how the best way to "train" was to just give someone some money. Seems more realistic to have to actually do some training.

I also like ThatOneGuy's idea. Maybe instead of mini games, some kind of mini quests. Kind of like some of the Master trainer quests that actually require that you use your skill.
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Amelia Pritchard
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:49 pm

I fail to see the point. So in order to improve my marksman skill, I can either go out into the wilderness and shoot things, or I can pay money to an NPC and go and shoot things which may or may not increase my skill?
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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:17 pm

No thanks. Seems to much like Fable
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Paula Rose
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:42 pm

No. (As in hell no, absolutely not, get outta here.)

Not applicable. (As in I said no.)

If they could be something akin to how FO3 did lockpicking, that'd be fine; it was a good balance between having the character's skill matter and giving the player some input to completing the activity, all fairly unintrusive and intuitive, and all without feeling too minigame-ey.


I guess. To me once inside the minigame it felt 100% minigame-ey, since it was 100% minigame. :shrug:

The only thing it had on Oblivion's lockpicking minigame was enforcing character skill by not even letting you play if your character's skill wasn't high enough to open the lock. And even then it got shaky, as a lock that required 75 (Out of max 100) skill to even try could be easily opened by player skill.
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Mark Hepworth
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:49 am

I fail to see the point. So in order to improve my marksman skill, I can either go out into the wilderness and shoot things, or I can pay money to an NPC and go and shoot things which may or may not increase my skill?

The rationale is that the minigame is a significantly less costly process (in terms of time, risk, player effort) than going out and improving the skill in other ways. It makes skill training more challenging, but never as challenging as increasing the skill naturally. Hence the monetary cost of training and whatever cap would presumably apply.

I find the argument from player ability vs. character ability unconvincing, as the TES series' combat (and several other elements that apply similarly to all computer games) has always relied on the player's ability to move and click for the character to a lesser or greater extent. Player ability already impacts skill gain (primarily through combat), and so level gain, and so even the purely character ability-driven classic RPG elements, less directly.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, though. I was just curious to get some feedback.
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Jack Bryan
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:21 am

No.
I dont like what mini games there are now, i certainly wouldnt want to see more
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jessica robson
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:02 am

I like the idea, although instead of having the minigames as necessary for skill training I'd rather have them as optional minigames which offer a low chance (30% perhaps?) of increasing their relative skill when you participate in them. Or, optional minigames as competitions which offer up interesting prizes which could either be generic or unique items (e.g. if you win a smithing competition, you win a stock supply of 50 repair hammers, or if you which the archery tournament you might be awared say a unique bow or a big supply of rare-ish arrows. etc)
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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

The people saying no are acting like the ONLY way to gain in skill level is by playing the mini-games. They would completely OPTIONAL and the function is for those GRINDING the skills anyway. It makes more sense and because it takes less time to gain the skill through a mini-game I think it is a good compromise. Anything that adds immersion to the game is a bonus, IMO.

EDIT: THE OP NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO DO THE MINIGAMES TO RAISE SKILLS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BUY SKILL INCREASES FROM A TRAINER! Seriously, did any of you negative Nancies even read the OP?
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:06 am

EDIT: THE OP NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO DO THE MINIGAMES TO RAISE SKILLS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BUY SKILL INCREASES FROM A TRAINER! Seriously, did any of you negative Nancies even read the OP?

Three words: Cohesive game design.
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Catherine Harte
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

hmm, only if you don't have to do it every time.

like select the amount of skills you wish to increase
this will increase the cost
and then select the amount in repetition like hit the target 5 times a level, and the 3 times for ever level over 5, etc

so if you want to increase it by 7 it'd be 5 times the first 5, and then 3 times the next to. 6 + 25, so hit it 31 times for 7 levels that will cost x. this way to don't have to leave and come into the mini game a bunch of times
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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:11 am

I see. It does not matter if you are still saving time doing a minigame instead of grinding the skill, you want the skill and you want it now. Might as well put in a "master of all trades button" that raises your skill very time you press it. I am not normally so negative, but there seems to be a lot of need for instant gratification in this thread. :P
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Rebecca Clare Smith
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:13 am

I'm all for training to be done in game (not a menu) and for the trainer actually teaching you to get better at the skill, like showing you all the moves, how to zoom, etc.

I'm against seperate screens with some underdeveloped reflex game though (I like the Archery one).
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Hayley Bristow
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:47 am

I'm interested in anything that places more emphasis on player skill, so long as it doesn't become tedious and repetitive.
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P PoLlo
 
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