Ok....i have created my own skill tree.
Here is the link http://s1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee394/St-frantic1975/?action=view¤t=SKILLTREE.jpg
Incase you can't see the small text, i've numbered them from 1-10 i will now type what they are.
This is an archery skill tree.
1: SAMINA: You now use less stamina while holding your shot.
2: STEADY: You now have 25% less sway,while holding your shot.
3: TECHNIQUE: Bow skill is better,you now have + 25% to shot speed.
4: FOCUS: Your focus is better,you can now zoom in on your target.
5: BIG BOWS: You can now use bigger and tougher bows.
6: HUNTER: You know the wildlife better,you now have a 25% damage bonus to all wildlife creature's.
7: RECYCLER: You can recover all arrow's ,used to kill your enemy.
8: MULTI ARROW'S: You can now fire two arrow's at once,this causes bleeding damage over time.
9: DISARM: You now have a 35% chance to disarm your enemy. ( this could link with auto target ).
10: STUNNING FORCE: Your arrow's now give you a 50% chance to stun,stagger or knock down your enemy.Enemies near objects ( walls etc ) have a chance to be pinned.

My skill tree is'nt the best ( i'll admit ),but it would be good to see what other people think about the tree system.
It would be great to see other's do their own trees and post them here.
It doesn't have to be archery,it could be any of the 18 skill's,it's just for fun/speculation really.
Feel free to do what you like.Change my 1-10 of perks via a list or create your own tree. I would be really interested to see other people's trees or views etc.
This could be a fun topic: Remember it doesn't have to be the archery skill,it could be any youm like.
Anyway have fun and i hope you enjoy the thread
The tree design is rough and did'nt take long,but chosing perks to think of took me ages.
If you do not like my skill tree or perks,please say so,i will not take offence,but do it in the right manner please

Those are like perks and not really skills .... If I understood well ...

Archery = Skill
Substuff under skill = Perks ....

Like i said it's just a rough idea.I'm sure many of you could do it better.
It's just to see how others would view it or how they would do it,for fun or to speculate etc.
It wasn't easy to think of perks etc for archery,my mind was blank,but the idea is there, for people to work with.

how can an arrow stunn an enemy?

i would rather preffer:

crafft arrows (need ingredients ddepending on diferent kind of arrows)

Thats like saying how could an arrow paralyze you in oblivion.
If an arrow shot you,you wouldn't be stunned in some way?
Arrow's can effect nerves etc,it is possible in my view
@ Craft arrow's.
That would come under smithing or a craft in my view,it wasn't easy to do archery perks without them tying in to other skills,like sneak,smithing etc.

Is nobody really interested in other peoples take on perks or skill tree's?
There must be some of you out there that has thought of this....surely

Well I haven't really thought about it as much as you it seems. I do like your idea for multiple arrows though. There was a mod for Oblivion called Double Nock Shot and you could nock two arrows in your bow. It would be very cool to see that in Skyrim. Nothing crazy, but a double nock ability if you want would be interesting.

Not bad ideas but here is my problem. With so many perks in the game I have the feeling that most are going to be terribly generic, I.E. passive 5% fire damage. Streamlining skills to fit in perks is an excellent idea but not if they are just filler that is so commonly found in todays terrible RPG's. I have posted this before I want my perks to be more character definining. Less passive stats and more perks like your stunning force perk.

I'm glad you like that perk :thumbsup:
My tree isn't the best example,i'm sure bethesda as done it a 100 times better with more depth.
I just wanted to inspire people to do their own,i'm interested on what others would do

I was thinking for the destruction perks, there might be things like, all fire spells cause burning or if the effect is already there then the time is increased. Other ideas were that all ice spells could slow enemies in an area effect, lightning could jump between enemies, and maybe bonus unique spells.

For weapon perks, I think bleeding and ignoring armor has already been mentioned by the devs. But I was thinking of things like breaking an enemy's block, some sort of 360 whirl wind attack, and maybe extra damage to an enemy's weapon and armor; in addition to the stun, disarm, and knockdown effects. And I'm sure there will probably be damage and speed increases for specific weapons.

The image doesn't reflect a skill "tree" imo, only leveled perks. For a "tree" structure, you shouldn't be able to reach all finals from the same branch.

This is what I'm concerned about. It'd be fine if there were some exciting perks thrown in along with the passive ones but I don't see it happening.

The perks we have heard about so far all seem great. Giving different weapons unique effects is nice. Guess it comes down to opinion.

I would like to see a Berserker perk, maybe under athletics. It could make the player invulnerable for a few seconds when health is critically low, if the player manages to kill an enemy before the effect wears off he/she remains invulnerable for another few seconds. Rinse and repeat.

thats how the new system is going to work. less skills, more perks.

I have to admit I'm concerned as well, but I have faith they will strike a good balance between the two.

Also, I guess it all comes down to, where you consider the line to be between passive perks that do nothing more than boost numbers and stats in defense and attacks, and exciting perks that translate into new effects generated on screen by your characters actions. If, for example, there is a perk that increases the rate at which you can fire arrows by 30%, I would personally consider that to be an active or exciting perk because it changes how I can play the game. It allows me to approach combat scenarios differently than I would have without the perk. It also translates into a visual effect that I can see and feel on screen in my characters actions; albeit a subtle one. However, others would view that as a passive perk, because all it does is give a boost to performance when using a bow.

Good point. but even the "passive skills should tranlate onto the screen. Like T. Howard said. You get better with maces so there is a perk that bypasses armor. Now I can understand that being present as maces tend to smash up armor,skeletons,and what-not pretty well. But how to translate that to give it more impact other than "oh my warrior is good with maces so he somehow just bypasses armor". Even the generic perks could benefit from visual flair. I.E. that armor bypass gives nice "crunching armor" and "enemy cries of pain" at a broken bone. Ideally maces should bust the armor up with chunks flying off but that might ruin looting and not just TES games but all games aren't that far into efficiently and effectively implementing such detail.

Might as well have some fun and humor the OP's post. I am a very conceptual person so here are some (vague) ideas for the destruction skill.

Fire Perk 1 - Fire lance, Turns standard firebolt spells into a bar of conentrated heat searing and cauterizing foes

Fire Perk 2 - Concussive blast - Gives your Fireball a wider and more visual blast radius as well as dealing Kinetic damage throwing foes about and giving a "shellshock" stun

Fire Perk 3 - Disco Inferno - Your mastery of fire gives your appearance a spectacular display of fire and energy giving an armor bonus and searing anyone who tries to attack you.

Ice Perk 1 - Watch Your step - You lay a sheet of ice on the ground, anyone rushing you falls on their ass. Good crowd control

Ice Perk 2 - Winter Wind - Your ice mastery allows you to summon a winter storn enveloping foes in icy wind shredding foes with nasty ice chunks

Ice Perk 3 - Snowball - You have learned from the icy regions of skyrim - Your power causes small avalanches from the naturally falling snow encasing foes and dealing kintetic damage

Lightning perk 1 - Ball lightning - The lightning erupting from your fingertips now hit with evven more force. This ain't some sparkly light show. Thunder follows in your wake

Lightning perk 2 - Static charge - Your electric personallity causes not only your hair to stand on end but everyone else' hair as well! Enemy magic users will curse your name for eternity as concentration is ruined and their aim thrown off.

Lightning perk 3 - The Storm - Yeah... I did that. You call down fury from the skies lightning erupts on and around your foes, the ground shakes the skies tremble and.... where did the bad guys go??

The Last Perk - You are a master of destructive forces... A Tamriel Timebomb. A halo of destructive force eminates from you causing all enemies to flee in terror screaming like girly men. Anyone caught in the blast radius appears to slow in time while their finger and toe-nails are slowly pulled off one instant before being vaporized.

I make light of this but that is how a true perk system should work.... spectactularly..... "but what about balance and overdoing the fantastic?" Easy these are feats should come daily to you and weekly. To be used in extreme circumstances.

You and I are in complete agreement on this fact. I think we should be able to see the effects of the perks that make our characters stronger--at least the offensive ones. It doesn't have to be anything grandiose either; just something simple represented in a visual or auditory way to highlight and remind us of the empowering abilities we've chosen to help define our character.

As for your last point, I agree. I don't think we'll get a real time animation of the enemy's armor being crumpled and dented by our 'ignore armor' mace, but there are other ways they could go about it. I think I read somewhere that they've implemented the effects of frost forming on the skin when struck by a 'Frost' spell, and fire igniting around the environment for a short time after a flame spell has been cast, so I think the ability to hear a fleshier, hollowed out sound or even an occasional bone snap, or to see sparks or small clouds of dusty debris flying off an NPCs armor(not pieces of the armor itself, just an animated bit of debris), when he's struck by a mace with the ignore armor perk activated is feasible. Whether they had the time or put the effort into implementing such defining sounds and animations is another question.

Agreed.

I hope/suspect that what we'll see is that each distinct perk will grant the player a new ability (even if it's of the "mace ignores armour" type), and that the more "passive" perks will rather be upgrades to perks you've already got. So you might choose the "mace ignores 10% armour" perk, but then next level up you might be able to upgrade that perk to "mace ignores %15 armour".

I want to avoid passive skills because generally they tend to be obvious choices, particularly those that add 10% to damage or something like that. What happened in Fallout 3 was that everyone chose the same perks (Toughness, Sniper, Cyborg, etc.) because these all-purpose power-ups were far more useful than the very situational active perks.

I like your idea of pinning someone with an arrow if they're near a wall, although I think it should be a perk to itself. I also like the bleeding effect, multi arrows, stunning, disarming and recyclable arrows ideas. These are all useful to some degree depending on your play style and there isn't one clearly better than the others.

Tree? I thought it was just skill linked like FO not skill trees, I'd like a mix for some characters not just have to plow at one or two skills to get the better perks.

Honestly though, I don't want to see a lot of this 'passive perk stacking'. To have one point on the mace branch be 10% ignore armor and then the next one be 20% ignore armor and then the next one be 30% ignore armor, is sheer laziness and a lack of creativity on the devs part, and an abundance of this makes the whole concept of a perk system bland, dull and tedious, not to mention absolutely unsatisfying in regards to character growth and distinction.

Increasing the level of our individual skills, already adds passive power to their use, so creating a perk system that follows this formula is 'superfluous' as Todd would say. Instead the perk system should add flavor to your characters actions and attacks; unlocking unique abilities and creative uses for the skill being perked.

Going back to my example about the mace ignoring armor, I wouldn't mind seeing an early point in the branch(1^st or 2^nd point) be an 'ignore armor 25%' perk and then one near the end(2^nd last or last point) be an 'ignore armor 50%' perk with the remaining points unlocking completely different uses or unique attacks for the mace. To have the entire 'mace branch' of one handed combat be committed to increasing the 'ignore armor percentage' would be boring and stale, even if they did manage to add to the passive nature of the perk with some sort of animation or sound that let you know that the perk was being used and affecting your attacks.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm hoping for variety and diversity in the types of perks, as well as being able to see the perk translated from a passive state of numbers and percentages into something I can see, feel or hear on-screen.

Exactly, Just look at my destruction mock-up. I make light the system and those perks may be over the top but I would want that variety out of the perk system. In fallout 3 I found myself actually straying away from the passive perks for the more unique items like "cannibal" and "mister sandman" for the diversity. Did I use cannibal often? Not really but if I wanted to eat a corpse I could do so anytime I wanted!

*edit* disregard this reply the skill tree didnt come out nice