For me at least, its the satisfaction of choosing dialogue, which I did have the right skill or perk for. Sometimes I even choose dialogue I don't have the skill to meet, just for the comedic value. I mean, playing the idiot can be funny...

It is frustrating to see I could have trained x skill for more lines, maybe a better reward or quest branch, but I know its there next time I play. Different strokes.

I wonder if the skill/perk system will reflect Fallout 3 having Small guns and Big guns or New Vegas just having guns and survival as the 13th skill.

It is also weird how they designed this Fallout 4 shelf. SPECIAL will have to be on the middle or bottom shelf and one of the stats is going to be in front of all the others.

I thought it was great that you couldn't do/get everything in F3 or NV on a single play through.
Gives weight to the choices made and adds replay value.

When were you ever locked out of an entire quest for lacking the right skill in any Fallout game? You couldn't take certain options, of course, but every quest you could take you could see to completion. That's not the same as being locked out of quests for faction reputation, or because a decision you made in a prior quest conflicts with another quest; that's fine. No one's suggesting we should be able to experience every outcome with one character, which is something no Bethesda game has done.

As for getting locked out of content for faction affiliation, that's a discussion for a separate thread. This thread's become more about how skills will be present in F4, and their value as perks instead of their own thing.

Good find! Huh, if my theory that the SPECIAL requirement for a perk corresponds to how far it is down the perk chart, that would make the Science! perk require 9 INT, which doesn't seem right at all. So, I'm probably wrong? Or maybe that's not where Science! is...

When you're looking at the weapons though, it marks them as things like "[Skill] Rank 2" or "[Skill] Rank 3". This makes me suspect that skills are now moved more heavily into perks, and that bobbles will actually increase those ranks.

This is both a good thing and a bad thing as far as I'm concerned - it'll make levelling across a rank of 'skills' slowly overtime a no-go (unless levels are little 'bites' at a cap of 100, or you get multiple per level up) - but it will also make a little more sense, imho. Slowly increasing Med over time because you killed a bunch of Deathclaws, and then suddenly being able to do BRAIN SURGERY without any training or actual study?

http://imgur.com/gallery/UjbFd

Oh I don't think skills have been dumped either. When I saw the Science Rank and Gun Nuts Rank along with a bobblehead for Barter I knew that skills would be in the game, but they're redesigning how skills work. Instead of being something you can increase at your leisure with a few points in this and a few points in that it'll instead be a rank system, probably going from 1-5. That I don't like. So sure, skills are in the game, but they're not going to work like skills used to, and that I don't like.

Not necessarily. If the game is paced perfectly, then a character who focuses on science will have pathways open to him that someone who focused on stealth/lockpicking wouldn't and vice versa. If the developers pace the game segments poorly, then it could be the case that someone who ONLY put points into science would have the ability to stay ahead of the curve, so to speak, and access the hacking portions as they played the storyline. So, I don't think you'd want to go that extreme, but if I played a jack of all trades and focused on science initially, I should still be able to do what a specialist would early on, then maybe we get separation as I spread out into other things and they stay focused.

Long story short: I don't like people who think we need to punish people who want to do it all, especially in a survival game. Playing to your strengths is great, but I think we can all agree that a well balanced individual is going to have a lot easier time in adverse situations than someone who does one thing really well. In fact, I'd like to think that getting thrown out into a living hell of a wasteland would make you better at things you aren't... or make you dead.

All they need to do is pace it well and then it really doesn't matter if you want to do a few things or everything. Why restrict that option?

Sorry to double post but I forgot what this thread was even about when I responded to that other post ha ha.

As long as skills still increase, I don't necessarily care how they partitioned them. In my mind, having them increase from 1 to 10 would be fine. If they only have 5 ranks, I believe they can still functionally accomplish what they were meant to do, but it does seem like a weird departure from the Beth system of "the more you do it, the better you get at it". Of course, FO3 didn't function this way, but in essence, you tended to upgrade the skills you were using anyway.

I'll be interested to actually see some perks. Depending on what those look like, I probably won't care how skills have been changed. So long as they are present and I can customize my character to my liking, I've found that changes to the development systems don't really affect my enjoyment of the overall experience. That said, I don't think Bethesda has made a character progression system that I have thought was astounding. I feel like they take a new stab with each release and somehow don't mess it up but don't make it better either. It feels like they are backsliding too in my humble opinion. Time will tell I guess, but I have faith as of now!

Funny how none of the people claiming skills still exist have refuted this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQoAf0WoNzA, and he was right to. The OP already admitted his mistake.

I don't think the skills system will be replaced at all. A good example of a game without skill points is Witcher 2. While you do have some stats that determine how much damage your character can take and dish out there is no way to become over powered without skills. You also have to rely on your own player skill, tactics, and reflexes instead of an OP character.

I personally will miss skills, but it's not the end of the world. I will enjoy this new game for what it is.

Alright, tell me, what proof -is- there that they're still there? And by being there I mean, in they way they were. That you could individually level them up?

What we have is a perk-chart, which implies perks are in different categories. Science related perks will be under the science perk-chart. Does that mean it's a skill? No, it does not. What we'll most certainly get is a perk-tree which has a label on it, but skills as we know them are gone. You can no longer have 37 lock-pick. You can have rank 2 in it, certainly, but it's no longer a 1 to 100 system. Instead, it's only perks.

Iirc, skills were ranked in FO3 and NV, but the ranks fell into the disguise skill minimuns of 20, 40, 60, 80...and maybe 100 or 90? For example, you cant hack a Master level computer without enough Science skill, essentially needing the highest rank. This was the same across multiple skills that would lock you out of various actions, dialogues, and more without sufficient skill/rank. The skill level also doubled up though on effectiveness on things, essentially the same thing we saw in the perk system in Skyrim. If you had low medicine skill in NV, Stimpaks were pretty useless to you. If you had a higj survival skill, food was extremely beneficial.

I think something similiar, yes. A perk tree similiar to Skyrim, but without the 'learning by doing' maybe.

It's true that there were ranks of sorts, which is why I believe we no longer have skills and rather only perks. You can achieve the same thing, without having a 1 to 100 system. Want to open a lock? Choose rank 1 in lock-picking. Want to open a better lock? Choose the next perk. In Fo3, you had to spend skill-points and eventually would rank up. I believe the perk only system will allow you to do the exact same thing. It doesn't mean we have skills as they used to be, or skills at all. What we do have is a perk tree representing what used to be a skill.

Female gender selection was added last week after the outcry.

Skills are being added this week after the outcry.

All this is possible with the power of the internet

(not really, they were there all along...)

Well, it is, but requires a [censored]storm of "ME3 ending" category

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU-bjLEW5vA

This was probably posted already, but just in case it wasn't, this is more evidence proving that skills will not make a return.

I personally do not like this system. To be viable in the wasteland boring perks such as gun damage will need to be taken and fun perks such as Bloody Mess will become obsolete and inefficient. Perks IMO should be fun bonuses on top of skills rather than essential tools to face enemies.

As long as I'm not Forced to be a MOAT I'm fine with this system although that doesn't mean I'm a fan of it. Much like Attributes in Skyrim, I don't think cutting it is the best solution. You shouldn't get rid of your car just because you got a flat tire, you get a new tire and it shouldn't go flat again.

That's the same thing everyone has been speculating on. It really doesn't confirm anything. Until we are able to get a look at that Perks screen we just won't know how it works exactly.

i doubt skills ever get fully taken out in a fallout game, ever since Fallout 1 and later two things have never changed; Special as atributes, and the Skills section. While some skills have disapeared (Outdoorsman, Big Guns, Traps, ect.) and some have returned aldo in a different way (Survival instead of Outdoorsman, Guns instead of Big Guns or Small Guns, etc.) it has always had skills as a fundemental game functionality. We might see some new skills being shuffled around, especialy seeing the extended crafting and such, but totaly gone i dont think they will ever be.

Also since they show the specials screen, and someone already pointed this out, Agility states that it inproves Action points sprint recovery i think it was and sneak. What should be kept in mind is that this is nothing new, it just mean the more points pooled into that atribute gives a flat increase in that skills starting value, So for sneak for example, starting with 1 agility might start it at 13, while having it at 5 might have sneak start at 20 or something like that. And that is before you tag a skill or add perks. What i dont see in the demo is just that, no "build to destroy" or "wild wasteland" perk to chose from to boost starting skills or such at character creation. Maybe it will hapen once you are in the vault, but i might not hapen at all, we will have to see.