Skills & Perks - Revised Edition!

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:42 pm

The Pyromaniac perk, as it appeared in Fallout 3, affected all Flamer variants, as well as the Shishkebab and the Firelancer. In New Vegas it was a little more diverse, also affecting a number of thrown weapons, two unarmed weapons, and three types of ammo. From what I can tell, there does not appear to be an icon on the chart that would relate exclusively to this idea. In fact, the closest match would be the one identified as Explosives.

What I believe is that, as we advance in ranks for the Explosives skill, we will be able to craft unique and progressively more powerful explosive devices, including incendiary ones. This skill would also increase, at least to a degree, the base damage from existing explosives such as mines or grenades. Other weapons that may be fire based, including Unarmed, Melee, or Flamers, would be improved via weapon mods. Note that Flamers would be modded using the Gun Nut skill, whereas unarmed and melee weapons do not require any crafting skill. This should not be an issue however, as the most powerful fire based weapons (other than incendiary devices), and therefore the ones most likely to be affected here, would be Flamers.

EDIT: unique fire based weapons such as the Shishkebab or Firelancer would almost certainly be given a higher starting damage to compensate for this.

I've actually been going over this quite a bit in my head, and something about my suggestion doesn't quite feel right.

In the gameinformer article, the only reference made literally says "something called V.A.N.S." This means that, at the moment at least, it could be interpreted in many different ways. And so, just because my idea "fits", doesn't mean it's right.

The reasoning behind my suggestion, as I explained in the OP, was the lack of any really solid stealth mechanic in previous Fallout games. And so I came up with the idea that a variety of existing elements from both Skyrim and Fallout 3 (both developed by BGS) could be wrapped up into one 'master level' perk such as the one I described. Oddly enough, this idea would still fit perfectly well even if we used a different name. Taking inspiration from the previous Ninja perk, as Leprechaun even hinted at in his thread, the 4 stealth options described could be grouped together as the 4 ranks of a brand new perk called Ninja Master. The difference in name here is important in the same way that Science! (Fallout 4) can be differentiated from Science (Fallout 3).

And so, looking again at the 4 ranks in this new, slightly different context, you would have the following:

Rank 1 would reduce noise from running or walking by half, like an advanced version of Muffled Movement from Skyrim. This would fit well alongside the Sneak skill, which would be more focused on remaining unseen, specifically when either moving in sneak mode or picking pockets. Rank 2 would eliminate all noise from running or walking, and would be the equivalent of the previous Silent Running perk. Rank 3 would allow us to throw our voice in order to confuse or distract enemies, in a similar way to how the Throw Voice dragon shout worked in Skyrim. And finally, Rank 4 would allow us to carry out a Silent Takedown similar to the Knockdown effect seen in both franchises. This would essentially mean that any successful melee or unarmed sneak attack that does not kill an opponent will render them unconscious. This would allow us, for the first time ever, to have an effective non-lethal takedown option in a Fallout game. This would be very useful if there were unarmed enemies (such as scientists at the Institute) who could notify others to our whereabouts. And so we could sneak behind them and knock them unconscious with the butt of our rifle.

And so this leaves us with something of a dilemma. We must find somewhere else to place V.A.N.S., and it has to be something that fits with the other perks, is completely unique, and also matches what we know about our protagonist and the setting.

Looking at my previous V.A.N.S. suggestion of Vocal & Acoustic Noise Suppression, this now seems more than a little too scientific. And besides, the Ninja Master perk explains exactly the same functionality in a way that makes a lot more sense, is easier to understand, and also sounds a lot cooler to boot. If we now look again at my suggestion for the Submariner perk, we can see that the icon shows Vault Boy standing inside a Moon Pool, the same type that are used in diving support vessels in conjunction with a variety of applications, one of which is underwater exploration.

If you look very carefully at the E3 footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5esyZPt5Jo&feature=youtu.be&t=3m40s at around 3:40, note the greenish image on the left hand side of the screen. Now watch this image as the footage progresses over the next couple of seconds. As the central image moves to the right, we see what looks like the HUD of an underwater vehicle of some kind, or at the very least a HUD overlay used to assist underwater navigation. This very subtle clue was actually first pointed out by Helljumper in http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1526246-the-glowing-sea/?p=24151698 post. Putting this all together, and seeing as we already have a Navigation system in the form of a map, compass, and objective markers, the next available option, which would perfectly fit the setting of the game is:

Vault-Tec Assisted Nautical System.

This perk, which fits with the image of VB described above, would allow us to activate an Underwater Exploration mode in the Pip-Boy, complete with a unique HUD as seen in the concept art image. We would then have a specific duration to be able to survive without oxygen (hence the perk being listed under Endurance), which would increase as our rank in the perk increases. With the higher ranks, we may also be able to unlock additional features, such as a weapons system. As a final observation, this explanation not only ties in with the concept of Vault 111 as described http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1523172-is-vault-111-built-like-a-submarine, but it also matches the Captain Nemo references I pointed out some time ago in http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1524192-more-clues-in-the-concept-art thread.

EDIT 1: the sneak skill as described above would also affect sound, but this would be limited to sound made whilst in sneak mode, and not when walking or running.

EDIT 2: the above explanation of the V.A.N.S. system would also give vault inhabitants a means of using the fail-safe escape tunnel built under the vault, as explained in the linked thread! This tunnel would be reached via a decompression chamber containing a Moon Pool as shown in the icon for the perk. This would then lead us out through a subterranean tunnel and into a nearby lake where we could escape, if the main exit to the vault had become blocked. This is the route that I have suggested the Institute took when accessing the vault.

User avatar
Sylvia Luciani
 
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:31 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:28 am

I like it. Providing the Shish is still in Fallout 4 (can't remember seeing it in any concept art or trailers). I guess it will be a 'wait and see' on the pyro perk.

And, I approve of your new interpretation of V.A.N.S.

User avatar
Gisela Amaya
 
Posts: 3424
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:29 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:04 pm

I have just added a second edit to the above post that not only makes this new interpretation far more likely, it also ties together more elements of my theory made weeks before we even heard about V.A.N.S.

User avatar
Matt Terry
 
Posts: 3453
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:58 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:28 am

@Myst357, looking again at footage of the Shishkebeb, I am quite certain that this, as well as many other unique crafted items, will be making a return in Fallout 4.

The reason I say this is that the crafting system we have been shown so far is an extension of the system previously used, and not a replacement. With all the creativity on display for modifying rifles, pistols, and even a baseball bat, it would make perfect sense that we could also create and modify swords.

To demonstrate why I think this, look at my suggestion for the Acrobatics system, and note that I have mentioned parkour as a possible inclusion in the game. This is because of the massive amounts of verticality hinted at in the concept art, which immediately made me think of Dying Light. In this game, we use parkour to scale buildings and other obstacles, and we also craft weapons and items from component parts, including a very nice little number called https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enOx4SueLdY. This weapon, although far more lethal given the different context of Dying Light, has clearly been inspired by the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g4lbb6e_uU. And if Techland took it upon themselves to include this reference in their game, you can pretty much bet that Bethesda would take their own concept and update it, make it a lot cooler, and include it in Fallout 4.

User avatar
Jhenna lee Lizama
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:39 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:28 am

Yes, I definitely see the inspiration of the Shishkebab in Gabriel's Sword. I'm sure you are right about the crafting system allowing us to make something similar or much better.

Taking a second look at the above information and linked topics and I really do see it coming together.

User avatar
Pete Schmitzer
 
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:20 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:43 am

I'm thinking that they just meant there would be maybe a fire escape or some other way to access the roof so that you can take pot shots if you like. Not that you would be scaling and jumping across buildings like in Dyling Light. Parkour would be an incredible risk for this franchise.

User avatar
ILy- Forver
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:18 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:18 am

If you are referring to my proposed second exit from Vault 111, which I think is the case, then I perhaps just need to clarify this a little.
Firstly, there has been no official mention of a second method of getting into or out of the vault. This idea is something I came up with that seems very likely given the way the vault is designed. Due to the main access door being horizontal and not vertical, there would need to be an alternative method of leaving the vault, in the event that the lift area were to become blocked or damaged. This could occur if, for example, a 747 or equivalent had it's electrical systems knocked out by EMP and then fell to earth. This would tie in with the various airplane wreckages we see in the trailer, the footage, and the concept art. If something this size ended up on top of the lift access area, then nobody inside the vault would be able to escape once they awoke from stasis. Just to qualify this statement, a fully intact 747 weighs something in the region of 400 tonnes.
And so an 'emergency exit' would have to have been incorporated into the vault. The method I came up with, shortly after the E3 footage was shown, was that a hatch inside the main area of the vault would lead into a decompression chamber (with a moon pool), which would then lead out through a subterranean tunnel and into a nearby lake. This would allow vault inhabitants to safely exit the vault. Note that this method would meet the requirement that the vault could not be breached under normal circumstances due to the massive high pressure whilst the inhabitants are in stasis as described http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1523172-is-vault-111-built-like-a-submarine. Also, the distance out to the nearby lake would be too far for anyone to survive without specialist diving equipment. The lake used for the escape route would be the one seen https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Great+Meadows+National+Wildlife+Refuge/@42.4756627,-71.3330381,2397m/data=http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1529102-skills-perks-revised-edition/!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0xbf6cbd4a2b47e5a4!6m1!1e1, due to it's relatively close proximity to the vault. For those who don't already know, Vault 111 and Sanctuary Hills are actually located in the park seen to the West of this map marker, and the bridge we see in the footage leading towards the Red Rocket garage is the one seen next to https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/394+Monument+St,+Concord,+MA+01742,+USA/@42.47163,-71.3496119,2397m/data=http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1529102-skills-perks-revised-edition/!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89e39a25b5066e99:0x7b4c7a3fe91aad35 real world property. Note that the Minute Man Monument has been moved to the other side of the Concord River, immediately opposite the house marked on the second map.
Due to Vault 111 being specifically designed for military or ex-military personnel, as explained in the second spoiler tag of http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1528436-the-mother-of-all-theories thread (there is far too much evidence for this not to be the case), the Pip-Boy's issued to vault inhabitants would also be designed for military use. This can be seen very clearly just by the design of the new Pip-Boy, which definitely looks like a military upgrade. As such, the diving equipment used to facilitate this escape would be built directly into the Pip-Boy in the form of the V.A.N.S. system described above. This would allow the vault inhabitants to survive the journey out through the fail-safe tunnel. Note that this would be exactly the same route used by the Institute when removing the cryo pod containing Shaun and the protagonist's spouse. The Institute would have sent in a team of modified Synths, capable of accessing the main vault area without being crushed, who would then place the cryo pod into a pressurised containment system so they can be removed from the vault. Without this containment system, the water in every cell of the inhabitant's bodies would expand and then crystallize, killing them both instantly.
Note that, if the above is correct, then it would mean that all residents of Sanctuary Hills would not only be either military or ex-military, but would also specifically be from the US Navy or the Marines. Just as an additional thought, it would be interesting if our protagonist couple actually knew something of the military issue Pip-Boy from pre-war due to the wife's role in the Navy, but only in the sense of it being a 'classified piece of kit' that was currently being tested.
EDIT: with regards to your mention of parkour being too risky to add to the franchise, I would imagine that even if this is a part of the Acrobatics skill (which I think it is), it would be powerful enough to be considered useful, perhaps only in certain situations similar to Whirlwind Sprint, but also subtle enough so as not to make the skill too overpowered.
User avatar
Donatus Uwasomba
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 7:22 pm

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:56 am

There was also. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Zhu-Rong_v418_Chinese_pistol

Given that incindieries seem to be mostly mods of existing weapons it is possible that there is not a separate perk for pyromania this time, also it may be the case that with cryogenic and posibly electric damage types the decided ok, let's not try to stuff the chart with basically duplicate perks.
User avatar
Emily abigail Villarreal
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:38 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:08 pm

A very good point, I'd forgotten all about that one. And you're right that the devs would not have wanted to have any duplicate perks.

In the same way that the skills are still here, even though many people believed that they had been removed, I think that the effects from the former Pyromaniac perk would be incorporated into the rest of the system in the ways described above, without having to use up a valuable perk slot.

User avatar
candice keenan
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:43 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:10 pm

It's possible, but I think it would give too much of an importance to V.A.N.S as opposed to the other perks.

Either the whole element of Underwater Exploration would be accessible to any character, with V.A.N.S. making it more efficient in some way or UE would be just a gimmick which I suppose wouldn't suit it.

I think V.A.N.S. actually affects V.A.T.S. in some way, hence the acronym. Since it's depending on the highest possible Agility it's got to have at least somewhat of a connection to that attribute. Maybe V.A.N.S. allows us to move in V.A.T.S. mode while consuming AP in order to dodge bullets and reposition ourselves?

User avatar
The Time Car
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:13 pm

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:21 am


In light of the listed changes to some of the perks, the 10 Agility perk would now be Ninja Master as described above. The new V.A.N.S. perk would be positioned at 5 Endurance.
User avatar
Tai Scott
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:58 pm

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:36 am

Thanks, I didn't catch it up. Your explanation definitely makes even more sense then. Don't you see any connection to V.A.T.S.?

User avatar
Ronald
 
Posts: 3319
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:16 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:24 pm


In my description, I suggested that increased ranks could add more functionality, including a possible weapons system. If this is correct, then this may well incorporate an underwater targeting system along the same line as V.A.T.S.
User avatar
Anna Kyselova
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:42 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:22 pm

With what we know so far, I don't think we can rule out that some, if not many, perks are quest/interaction related - at least not yet. This would actually make a lot of sense for perks that are more game play oriented rather than play style (or character build) related. Pyromaniacs and cannibal could be quest/challenge related. Do you think that would justify a new section in the OP? Maybe it would be better left to another thread.

User avatar
WTW
 
Posts: 3313
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:48 pm

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:18 pm


Sounds like that would be a worthy addition, and that idea would definitely make a lot of sense. I'll add a new section at the end of the OP for possible quest related perks.
User avatar
I’m my own
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:55 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:38 am

Well now that would be something new.

Hmm ... so many possibilities!

Edit: Thinking parkour would not be to 'over-the-top' but with a military background they would have military obstacle course training, therefore you would expect them to be able to scale a wall, swing on a rope, crawl under and over, perhaps?

User avatar
Matthew Aaron Evans
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:59 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:51 pm

I've read the Game Informer article.

What do you make of Todd's reference to 'special perks for lone-wanderer types (sic)'?

VANS is still a mystery to me but I salute your creativity. I'm searching for an adjective that starts with 'n': Vault-Tec Assisted N_____ System'...

User avatar
Carlos Rojas
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:19 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:44 pm

RE: "special perks" - might fall in line with what I was saying earlier about some perks being quest/interaction/decision based. To put it in the context of F3, it'd be sort of like getting Pyromaniac from letting the Ant Queen live or drinking the mutagen yourself, or getting Cannibal from siding with the town that that ate people (Andersonville? Something like that) instead of getting it by leveling.

Adjective: Nautical :D - if going with the underwater theory in this thread

User avatar
emma sweeney
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:02 pm

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:08 am

Is there a perk that gives us more info ( level, armor rating, etc ) on the enemies while in V.A.T.S. mode? It would be really cool to get detailed info on the enemies that would help us beat them.

User avatar
FABIAN RUIZ
 
Posts: 3495
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:13 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:16 am

I wouldn't be surprised. One of the VATS shots we saw in the footage showed the Raider's level; perhaps there's a Perception perk that adds more info about targets with every rank.

It would be hilarious if the 10 PE perk was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKGRijV8U3s. I feel like we'd know by now if it was, though.

User avatar
CArlos BArrera
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:26 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:49 am

I would be a little disappointed if it was lol. Maybe make that perk available elsewhere through a quest or fulfilling certain requirements, but please don't make it a perk chart perk.

User avatar
Sxc-Mary
 
Posts: 3536
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:53 pm

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:07 am


I actually have a solid idea about the 10 PE perk, as well as another 3 elsewhere on the chart. Will post them up along with a few minor tweaks as soon as I can. With any luck we'll have all 70 identified within the next week or so :)
User avatar
Nienna garcia
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:23 am

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:58 pm

Acrobatics? It can't be! Clearly, you've been using hallucinogens...

User avatar
NEGRO
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:14 am

Post » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:58 am

I like the idea of quest-related Perks. If different sides offer different rewards we won't be able to be a MOAT.

Explorer is a good example; it could be a download found in a nearly-inaccessible location. (I've always been a fan of Cyborg, too, which really needs a story element to flesh out (snicker) the process.

User avatar
{Richies Mommy}
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:40 pm

Post » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:04 pm

It would be nice if Perception also had an effect on when map markers start appearing on the compass.

User avatar
Farrah Lee
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:32 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Fallout 4