Hey, someone might have mentioned this already but I was thinking about the Lone Wanderer Perk. I wonder if it would be like the Lonesome Road perk from FONV dlc? That perk said if you have no companions, you have increased damage and an increased chance to hit in V.A.T.S.

My apologies if someone thought of this and I missed it.

Edit: After reading the Game Informer article, I noticed it mentioned Hacking, Safe Cracking, and Lockpicking. Do you think this means we will have new ways to break into safes? What if we could torch, cut, saw, drill, pry, or laser our way into safes? Wouldn't that be fun.

It could be the perk that gives us more details about our targets (The detailed level and armor ratings we see on some mobs in the combat video). Not sure what the N would stand for if that's the case, maybe Notes? Also now that I think about it that would probably be a Perception perk not Agility.

I will probably dedicate at least one play through to being a specialized thief just because of that.

Could be that safes are getting a unique mini game for them. It is more realistic than using a lockpick on a safe.

I am currently updating most of the info in the OP, so don't worry if you look in there from time to time and see anything that looks incomplete. It will all be updated in due course.

I have started adding descriptions for existing as well as new perks, and will also do the same for any likely candidates for quest related perks. Note that all perk descriptions are subject to change at this stage, and are based on best estimates. Here is an example, which is the description I have added for Lockpick (which is a 'skill' perk):

"Allows you to pick increasingly more complex locks and crack safes. Ranks 1-4 give access to easy, medium, hard, and very hard locks. Rank 4 also allows you to crack safes, via a brand new mini-game. This perk comes with it's own bobblehead hidden in the game world that will unlock the next available rank when found."

They may be doing challenge and quest perks for some things now.

IE pyromaniack may now require you to burn X number of targets and or deal X number of burn damage

This has been a long time coming, but I think it was worth the wait. I wanted to cover all bases (pun definitely intended) before I answered these. Oh, and I think you're really going to like the answer to 2, which I have saved until the end.

1. This has now been amended, resulting in Unarmed at 1 and Melee Weapons at 2. As you quite correctly pointed out, we would be able to use our fists long before wielding a weapon, and so this order makes a lot more sense. It also matches up with the respective icons.

2. See the section at the end of this post!!

3. The previous suggestion of Ninja has now been replaced with Martial Artist, as described in the updated OP. This would fit far better than the overly stealthy Ninja Perk. Also, Including the Martial Artist perk in this category would definitely make sense. This perk would allow us to target specific body parts when using Unarmed or Melee weapons in V.A.T.S., and so this would have an inevitable impact on damage output, including bonus damage for blows to the head. Including this under Strength would also keep all things related to Unarmed and Melee in one place, which ties in with the fact that every point we add to the Strength stat would further increase damage when using either of these skills.

Also, the perk at 10 Agility, which I had at the time incorrectly identified as V.A.N.S. (which is now placed at 5 Endurance as described http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1529102-skills-perks-revised-edition/page-4#entry24211796), has now been replaced with the far more stealth-sounding Ninja Master perk. This takes into account all of the previously noted stealth abilities, as well as the icon itself, which shows VB running (which explains the connection to Silent Running) with his hand raised in front of him. Due to the image being very unclear at this stage, his hand could also be seen as being a Shuriken star.

4. Science! has now been moved as per your suggestion. This means that all skill perks now have a requirement of 1-6 in their respective stats, depending on the power and usefulness of the skill. Here is my explanation for the new lineup as posted earlier on the thread:

"I have moved Science! to match it's corrected requirement of 6 Intelligence. This would now place Science! and Acrobatics as the joint most powerful skills, as they would both require a 6 in their respective stats. This makes perfect sense when you consider what these skills actually unlock (note that Plasma weapons appear to have both ballistic and energy damage). The next most powerful skills would be Explosives and Local Leader, both requiring 5. We then have Hacker at 4, Gun Nut and Sneak at 3, and all remaining skills at either 1 or 2. Note however, that this does NOT suggest that either Unarmed or Melee Weapons would be in any way underpowered, only that they would be accessible by almost anyone from the start of the game."

5. I have removed both Chemist and Fast Metabolism for the reasons outlined in your post.

6. The Attack Dog perk is due to be fully revised in line with new information posted throughout this thread, staring with http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1529102-skills-perks-revised-edition/?p=24208488 post.

7. Damage from ranged weapons is one point that has caused a lot of debate on this and other threads. My first feeling was that weapon damage would be tied directly to the Gun Nut and Science! skills, but as many have pointed out, this would not make any sense with the skills being listed under Intelligence. A far more sensible option, suggested by several people in this thread (and which I will add into the OP), is that weapon damage would more likely be tied to the Gunslinger and Commando perks.

Even though these perks are listed under Agility, they would be the perfect place to add incremental weapon damage as well as ranged accuracy. This would affect all pistols when using Gunslinger, and all rifles when using Commando. And so even if you did not meet the requirements to modify for example, a plasma rifle, with all 4 ranks in Commando you would still be fairly accurate (both in realtime and in V.A.T.S.) and would be able to do a great deal of damage. If you later unlocked all ranks in Science!, you would be able to turn the basic plasma rifle into a far deadlier weapon. This would be further enhanced if you also took Sniper, which would progressively improve V.A.T.S. targeting when taking headshots, and would mean you could end up taking some very long distance shots with a sniper rifle. As a final point, the above scenario could be achieved with conventional rifles with an Intelligence score as low as 3.

And now, back to point 2:

In your post, you suggested that the Vault Boy in the 2 Perception perk is pitching to the one in the 2 Strength perk, as a direct reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenway_Park, which we know to be the location of Diamond City. The problem I initially had with this theory is that the icons did not seem to match the suggestions of Little Leaguer and Heave Ho! Also, this second perk does not have any direct or indirect correlation to Perception. The final issue was that all existing perks carried over to Fallout 4 seem to have derived from Fallout 3, and not from other games. This would make sense, as Fallout 3 is the only other game in the series that was actually coded by the team at BGS, and so will have by far the highest number of references in Fallout 4.

As you know, the perks I have suggested for these 2 locations are Melee Weapons under Strength (corrected as detailed above), and Far Sighted under Perception. The reason I chose Far Sighted is due to the telescope which can be seen in the icon, and also the historical significance of both exploration and astronomy in Boston. But what I had missed at the time I first posted the description was just HOW significant that reference was. To explain more fully, I have quoted below the new descriptions for both Melee Weapons and Far Sighted as added into my OP a short while ago:

I really don't think you should have budged on that. Yes, anybody can throw a punch, but how many of us can honestly say we can fight off armed opponents with just are hands? It takes much more skill to make unarmed a viable option.

I agree with your line of thought, but we must also factor in a great deal of other information. And one of the most important of these is the icon for the perk.

Although they're a little hard to see (at least until you've looked at each one a few hundred times!), the first icon listed under Strength actually shows Vault Boy with his left fist lowered, his right fist raised, and he is not wearing a shirt. This would be consistent with somebody doing 'bare knuckle boxing'. And so this icon would perfectly fit the concept of the Unarmed skill.

If we now look at the second icon (the one underneath), we can see that it actually shows Vault Boy in full baseball gear, including a cap, and he is holding up a baseball bat ready to hit the incoming ball. This not only makes this icon a perfect fit for the Melee Weapons skill, it also seems to be a direct reference to Fenway Park as explained above, and as originally suggested by Leprechaun on their thread.

And so in both cases, the information in the icon would carry a lot more weight that anything else as to the interpretation of the respective perks. But to add to the relevance of your comment, which I think is very valid, the fact that there also seems to be an additional perk that is exclusive to the unarmed skill (listed as 7 Strength, which I have called Fists of Fury), as well as a combined Melee and Unarmed perk (listed as 8 Strength, called Martial Artist) makes Unarmed seem a much more viable option that in previous games.

And so, rather than just simply throwing a punch, with all of these skills combined, along with a maxed out strength score, we would be able to attack enemies with a flurry of very powerful blows, and would be able to target very specific body parts whilst using V.A.T.S. In addition to this, if we then add in some of the skills listed under Agility, in particular Sneak, Acrobatics, and Ninja Master, then we would truly end up being a force to be reckoned with, without ever having to pick up a single weapon.

Just noticed this! Sorry, I've been really busy.

What a brilliant suggestion! After re-reading the gameinformer article, I added in a suggested Lone Wanderer perk in my OP, but I hadn't put together a description. I think something along the lines of the Lonesome Road perk would be perfect in this context, especially as Todd already mentioned that there would be "special perks for if you want to play as kind of a lone wanderer." This perk could also add in some of the benefits that would normally be associated with bringing Dogmeat along, such as increased sensory awareness or additional survival skills.

In addition to this update, I also added details of safe cracking to the new Lockpick description, ans so I definitely think we've been on the same wavelength

But your suggestions here of using saws, drills and other tools to gain access to safes would fit in very well with the ideas already posted, and so I shall include both of these excellent suggestions in the next update. As an added note, your idea would also work very nicely with locks, especially locked doors!

As always, and this one goes out to everyone, keep the creative ideas flowing, and let me know if any of the contents of the OP don't make sense, or if you notice anything contradictory. With only a few more perks to go, we may have this particular safe cracked before Todd and the other devs have a chance to officially announce details for any of them. Sorry Todd, but it's what we do!!

Everyone keeps freaking about skills not making a come back in Fallout 4. I'm going to try my best to ease you and show you that infaction skills are making a comeback.

So I first want to post think link before I go into detail - http://i.imgur.com/WgdolPi.jpg

now here we can see the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. bobble heads that are lining up at the bottom. with further inspection we can see two more rows align on this stand. One above the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. has the same amount of seven slots. http://i.imgur.com/jbTHOtT.jpgThen another row above that with 6 slots http://i.imgur.com/UWlJvyZ.jpg

Now for those of you freaking out about skills not returning with both of those rows combined we have 13 slots that are different from the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. slots. If we look at the skills the main character had in Fallout New Vegas, we find out that there are 13 skills that the character could level up. Just wanted to show this for the people who are freaking out about fallout 4 not having skills.

The problem is, there isn't a skills menu in the Pipboy; in all of the footage we've seen thus far, the Stats menu of the Pipboy only has tabs for Status, SPECIAL, and perks. That's more damning than Bobbleheads. And, to be frank, the new leveling system doesn't need skills.

Thanks, Gkk7z. Glad you liked the post. A big thanks to YOU for all of the great detective work, and keeping us informed. We are all anxious to see what transpires in the coming weeks.

Someone suggested the possibility that we might get a free SPECIAL point every other level. So if the level cap is 50(we saw 48 in the E3 demo) then you'd have 21+25=46 SPECIAL points at the level cap. If that is true then higher ranks of perks like Gun Nut or Science! might have a corresponding SPECIAL prerequisite value. E.g. 7 Agility for Rank 4 Gun Nut.

You forget Blast..... Nothing says safecracking like blowing up everthing inside.

Oh And Yaaaay Gk keep it up

Oh yeah! Now where did I put that C4? (mu ha ha ha)

See, this is what I love about the forum, community spirit! Don't forget to keep the ideas and suggestions coming

As for the cracking safe idea (see what I did there!), we of course must not forget our old pal, Mr C4.

The good news is that skills are definitely still in, and we won't need to earn free special stats in the way you described.

Here is some information from a pending update that fully explains why:

It would appear that skills, perks, and stats all now coexist within a single, ingeniously designed system. What this means is that each time we level up, we are given the choice of selecting one of these three individual elements.

Firstly, we can choose to increase one of the 13 skill perks, all listed below, which will give us an immediate and measurable benefit. This makes the choice far more meaningful than in previous games, and would be the equivalent of increasing a skill by 25 points in one hit. Note that each of the skill perks have 4 ranks, which would equate to 25, 50, 75 and 100 in the respective skills. Because these skills are now tied directly to our stats (up to a maximum requirement of 6 points in the respective stat), it means that we must be a little more selective about which skills we wish to use from the start of the game. This will help us to create a more focused, and therefore a far more interesting character.

Secondly, we can choose to take one of the regular perks. Out of the 57 possible options, 54 of these have 4 ranks, leaving a remainder of 4 'special case' perks that have only 1 rank. Each of these regular perks provide a variety of benefits, both old, new, and in many cases redesigned from existing perks. Note that unlike the skill perks, the regular options would not come with an in-game bobblehead, and so the only way we could access them is by having the appropriate number of points in the associated stat. In contrast, when we find a skill related bobblehead, we would be given the next available rank in the respective skill for free, even if we technically don't qualify due to our stats. This way, everyone will have access to at least some functionality in all of the skills.

Thirdly, we can choose to increase one of our stats by a single point. This will give us any associated benefits, such as increased carry weight, a bonus to our Health, or a higher rate of gaining XP. This will also open up the next available perk in the corresponding stat. Note that we are not required to take perks in any particular order. As long as we have a high enough score in a given stat, we can select any perk in any order. This 'wide open approach' will further enhance our ability to create the exact character we want, without ever having to waste a single perk. Note that each of out 7 stats also have an associated bobblehead that will increase the respective stat by 1 point.

The fourth option would be to save our perk points until we are ready to spend them. This way, we can take our time to decide the direction in which we wish to develop our character, further enhancing the sheer brilliance of this system.

I think I'm okay with this. It's definitely different, and makes me think I may end up tweaking my character stats much more than I have in previous games.

I would like this as well, but I am easy to please. Cept of course finding the dang Bobble heads calling it now one on a narrow ledge way above you that you need eagle eyes to see and yer jump jets to get up to. heheh

I wonder If skill books will be a temp boost this time out (like magazines) or maybe hold unique perks or schematics?

For anyone interested in understanding the combat system more fully, I have just added the following information into the OP:

So is it basically granted we're getting a perk or SPECIAL point every level or is it every other level?

It would have to be every level if that's all we're getting. Otherwise you'd get levels where you get nothing but bonus health. At that point you might as well just halve the leveling speed and keep it at a perk per level.

Impressive speculations and great detective work. This is definitely something I will have to look at when I have time to thoroughly read through all the info provided.

Acrobatics sounds cool but I would much more prefer a sprint button or at least a sprint meter, similar to Skyrim versus having to upgrade my walking speed.

Acrobatics would more than likely be very different from the skill we were given in the Elder Scrolls series. Here is the updated description from the OP:

The next perk, seen 6 rows below the Agility icon, shows our Vault Boy performing some kind of acrobatical feat. In the image, he is balanced on his hands after doing what looks like a cart wheel. This suggests that Acrobatics, as previously seen in the Elder Scrolls series, has in fact made its début in Fallout 4 in the form of a brand new skill. This of course means that it will come with it's very own bobblehead for us to find. With regards to what the skill actually does, I think it will prove to be invaluable in a variety of situations. When considering possible uses, we have jumping, climbing, crawling, defensive rolls, and possibly even parkour. Considering the fact that our protagonist couple both have a military background, all of the above would make perfect sense. Especially in a world with much more verticality than we have seen in previous games, in terms of both height and depth. Note that Sprinting is already featured in the base game, which incorporates a recharge rate as determined by our Endurance level. This does, however, open up the possibility of a sprint-jump, which could be used to access certain 'dangerous' areas.

Not only will this be every level, but from what I can tell, the levels will be a lot closer together. The reason for this is due to the way that character builds now work. Here is an example of my first character, Jack who will be taking Piper and Dogmeat along for the journey. Note here that the Attack Dog perk will allow us to bring Dogmeat as an additional follower, opening up a huge number of tactical options:

My starting SPECIAL will be 6/6/5/3/3/3/2, and the skills/perks that this will initially give access to, that also fit the character build, are Strong Back, Lockpick, Far Sighted, Quick Reflexes, Explosives, Toughness, Life Giver, V.A.N.S., Attack Dog, Repair, Medicine, Gun Nut, Commando, Sneak, and Scrounger.

This sounds like a lot, but remember that this would only be 1 rank of any given skill or perk for each level up. The above options consist of 6 skills, highlighted in bold, and 9 perks. In order to max each of these out, taking into account any associated bobbleheads, we would need to reach level 55. This would be comparable to achieving the soft cap of level 50 in Skyrim.

Now let's take this a step further. Let's say that, after a great deal of exploration, we manage to find all of the remaining bobbleheads. We also increase our base stats a little, so that we can access a few more skills as well as some additional perks.

The final SPECIAL would in this case be 7/8/6/5/6/6/3, which would require a total of 6 stat increases, as well all 7 stat related and 10 of the skill related bobbleheads. This would increase the number of skills and perks useful for the build, so that we can now include Nocturnal, Sniper, Local Leader, Hacker, Science!, Action Boy, and Acrobatics.

Maxing out this final stage of the build, taking all bobbleheads into account, would require reaching level 85. Achieving such a feat would be comparable to hitting the hard cap of level 81 in Skyrim. Note that there would still, at this stage, be at total of 177 remaining perks, including those associated with the last 3 skills. However, the associated bobbleheads for these 'unused' skills, namely Unarmed, Melee Weapons, and Barter, would unlock the first rank in each, giving us access to at least some basic functionality.

Beyond this point, there is no reason why we wouldn't be able to continue levelling, although the process would likely be very slow. In Skyrim, we could continue to level up by making use of legendary skills. In the case of Fallout 4, in the example I have given, the remaining perks and stat increases would equate to an additional 206 levels! This means that, should we wish to continue playing, there would be literally nothing standing in our way, and we would continue to gain XP every time we racked up another kill, or performed any other action with an XP reward.

Finally, bear in mind that this is an extreme example due to the way I personally like to play. This would essentially cover all areas of crafting, including explosives, conventional weapons, energy weapons, repairing armor, and building settlements. It would give a noticeable boost when using rifles both inside and outside of V.A.T.S., particularly when taking headshots. It would include the ability to pick locks, crack safes, and hack terminals. And it would also includes a number of useful defensive and survival skills, as well as the ability to sneak and use acrobatics in order to more easily reach 'out of the way' areas. Finally, it would allow full and unrestricted access to underwater exploration via the V.A.N.S. perk.

Even taking into account the faster levelling which I am certain is a part of the redesign, this will likely take a very long time to achieve. But with a huge world to explore, and so many things to do and find along the way, think of how much fun this particular journey could be

Interesting....my usual playthroughs utilizes sniping and stealth and I usually tag speech, lockpick and science so I'll probably try to start F4 the same way (as much as possible) and see how the new game handles skills and perks. I have no plans to plan out my build for my first playthrough, I'll probably look into creating types of Protagonist (melee, heavy weapon types etc) in later playthroughs.