Yes, anybody can pick up a bat and swing it, but it would be a waste of perk points if there wasn't much damage being done at low strength levels. I don' think they would have made it available at that level if that was the case. My guess is that the strength modifier to your melee damage isn't all that much. At level 10 you might double the amount of melee damage that you do which isn't that much when you consider how expensive it would be to put points into strength.

Science is not 9, 9 is likely Educated. There is no way Science would be gated that high. as that takes a key crafting perk and holds it way out of reach of many a play-through. When every other likely Crafting perk is between 3 and 6 (Gun Nut 3, Demo Expt 5, Local Leader 5, Hacker 4), the chances that BGS makes that kind of bone-head move is unlikely. Also, most npcs that use and upgrade Energy weapons are not super-geniuses, so you shouldn't have to be either (sorry, but many BoS Scribes do not have 9 Intelligence).

The old skills wont be high in any tree.

I hope it's not at level 9, but I wouldn't say that it would be a boneheaded mistake. If they have it at 9 it's probably because modded energy weapons are a lot more powerful than guns. Second, you can get great weapons without crafting. You just need to invest in local leader and build merchant stands. That way you get the best weapons available to buy. So they give you alternative methods of getting good energy weapons without science.

I was debating with someone else about it possibly being at level 6 or 7. It can't be at level 8 since that's the Robotics perk.

The science perk doesn't have the same function it did as a skill in Fallout 3. Hacking, Robotics, Medicine, and making chems were all governed by science in previous games. Now they are all separate perks.

Your earlier suggestion of ranged weapons starting off with the equivalent of 50-60 in the previous skills also holds up here. Starting damage for Unarmed and Melee would be enough to warrant using them, but not as much as using a pistol or a rifle. As our Strength increases, along with the 4 available ranks in each perk, then we would be much more powerful and could take on more enemies this way during close-quarters combat.

Not only do I agree with you that Science! should have been placed at 6, I also think that the many people, yourself included, who have been suggesting weapon damage being tied to Gunslinger and Commando are actually spot on. I shall explain why when I update the OP.

Also, you previously mentioned the 'Chemist' perk being defunct now due to Medicine having 4 available ranks. I think you were correct here as well, which would open up a new slot under Intelligence. Looking at my top level suggestion of Cyborg, this would now fit perfectly with the icon seen at 9. I think that the top level perk is actually something a bit special, as well as very fitting with one of the underlying themes of the game. I shall explain this one also when I do the update.

what is your take on those screenshots from the gameplay demo, where sometimes we see some enemy stats like armor values, and sometimes we see not? I would have thought you'd work that into the perception perks as some form of recurring awareness perk.

Post up a link and I'll look into it.

Yeah, that does make a lot of sense.

@Leprechaun, I have just removed Fast Metabolism, which was listed as 8 Endurance, which as you pointed out would already be covered under the Medicine skill. I have also added Nuclear Anomaly as 9 Endurance, as per the suggestion on your thread, as not only does this match the icon, but it would be a perfect addition due to the events our protagonist witnessed just prior to entering the vault.

I was doing some math, and 275 ranks for 70 perks seems a lot, i do not think it is the case.

If so it yields 65 perks with 4 ranks = 65*4=260 (i am assuming maximum number of ranks is 4) and 5 perks with 3 ranks = 5*3=15.

No perks with only 1 rank.

That does not seem right.

PS: So the number of total ranks is less then 275 or there are 5 ranks in some perks.

http://imgur.com/a/huYe9
http://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3e8vwx/the_rubber_banding_system_should_we_be_afraid_for/

The total number of 275 perks would also include the 7 icons at the top of the chart, which allow us to increase our base stats as and when required at the cost of a regular perk. Note that these 7 perks would not have a rank due to them being technically unlimited (you could raise a stat from 1 all the way up to 10 if you felt the need). If we take the stat perks out of the equation, we are left with a total of 268 between 70 perks. This would allow for 4 perks with only a single rank, and the other 66 perks with 4 ranks.

As an important side note, I have moved Science! to match it's corrected requirement of 6 Intelligence. This would now place Science! and Acrobatics as the joint most powerful skills, as they would both require a 6 in their respective stats. This makes perfect sense when you consider what these skills actually unlock (note that Plasma weapons appear to have both ballistic and energy damage). The next most powerful skills would be Explosives and Local Leader, both requiring 5. We then have Hacker at 4, Gun Nut and Sneak at 3, and all remaining skills at either 1 or 2. Note however, that this does NOT suggest that either Unarmed or Melee Weapons would be in any way underpowered, only that they would be accessible by almost anyone from the start of the game.

I have also amended the rest of the Intelligence lineup, and have added a brand new Perk as the top tier in this stat. This new perk, which I have called Genius, would perfectly fit the premise of the game.

Thanks for the links. Will have to check this out in full a bit later on

Unarmed and Melee have been updated so that they now appear in the correct order. I have also replaced 'Ninja' with a new perk called 'Martial Artist', which would actually fit a lot better with the changes that have been made to in-game combat, and also with it being listed under Strength. Note that this perk would not only give a massive boost to anyone using either Unarmed or Melee weapons, it would also fit incredibly well alongside the new stealth-focused V.A.N.S. perk that I have described in the OP.

BTW from where did Acrobatics "skill" came from? (i did no read the previous thread)

I have a sneaky feeling your theories will soon be tested against reality, I have a hunch the official strengh perks row video will drop on or shortly after beth apperance at gamescom.

When we see weapons being modded during the E3 footage, the Gun Nut perk is used to modify a range of non-energy weapons, including something called a Junk Jet. This weapon bears a striking resemblance to the 'Rock-It Launcher' seen in Fallout 3, which was listed under Big Guns. From this, we can deduce that Small Guns and Big Guns have now been combined into the new skill perk known as Gun Nut. Seeing as there are a total of 20 slots on the bobblehead stand, as seen http://i.imgur.com/Lg1hDTo.png, this means that there is technically one skill missing.

The most likely candidate for this is the Acrobatics skill as I have described in the OP. If you read the description, you will see that it would be a perfect addition to gameplay, especially considering the increased levels of verticality in the form of scalable buildings, as well as large open areas such as the 'raider pit' into which we see the protagonist fire a mini nuke. On top of this, it would mean that we now have 13 skills each requiring between 1 and 6 points in the respective stat depending on how useful and powerful the skill would be.

I think you may be right on this one. Let's hope so!

Just to let you know, I have also added a replacement to Paralysing Palm which I have called Fists of Fury. Note that this is also the name of a perk seen in this http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/J.E._Sawyer%27s_Fallout_Role-Playing_Game tabletop game set in the Fallout universe, as well as being almost identical to the name of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fist_of_Fury Bruce Lee movie. If I'm right about the new skills, then both Unarmed and Melee Weapons are now looking to be much better than in previous games!

EDIT: in order to unlock the 2 new advanced perks described in the OP, you would need either 7 or 8 points in Strength, which would also mean you would do a lot more damage with each blow. This fits perfectly with the idea of advanced melee skills, and is even more reason why both of these perks would be listed under Strength.

Any thoughts on the Pyromaniac perk?

(Hides the napalm and incidieres) I don't know what pyromaiack perk? I think your thinking of another game.....

I suspect it's the 7 P perk because purple pip boy next to red/telos blob thing that kind of looks like fire

7 P perk? I have a difficult time distinguishing anything on the perk chart. Edit: Do you mean the one gkk7z calls Noctunal?

Anyway, since it's fire based weapons/big guns do you suppose the put it in with gun nut?

linky: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pyromaniac

Possibly, although Pyromaniac has usually superseded the categorization of the general weapons classes. Flamers, incendiary grenades, and the flame sword were all affected in the past. That could warrant its own perk separate from big guns or even explosives.

At any rate, awesome, awesome work gkk7z!

Ok so I was exaggerating a little but I stand by my point.
I guess it comes down to preference but I like a little restriction, it kinda stops being as interesting when I'm just getting perks as filler since I have extra points, and you can say "just don't get anymore" but if everyone stops taking perks after a while then they become pointless, (not saying everyone will) it worked well in skyrim since you had to make a skill legendry to keep leveling up but fallout works differently.

Also the whole enemies don't level with you thing means after a certain point you will end up being pretty OP (if you keep getting HP and more special/perks) and fallouts not a game known for being hard so this will likely be a step in the wrong direction, but again its probably just me who thinks this way.

I'm not sold on your interpretation of V.A.N.S.(At the very least I'd guess the first two words of the acronym are 'Vault-Tec Assisted'), though I think many of your theories are solid and will be confirmed.

How was V.A.N.S. presented in the Game Informer?

I hope so. I liked shishkebab in F3 and NV.

Instinct and Nocturnal would be awesome.

I am really hoping there is cannibalism again in the game. I loved having it in Fallout 3 and I enjoyed being a vampire in TES. Really hope they bring this back so I can make a vampire-ish character for FO4.

That sounds awesome. It really does sound like my ideal Fallout experience. They've made it more rewarding to have a character with at least one extreme attribute compared to other Fallout games where it really made no sense to do that at all. I love the idea of a Quinn Malory or Dr. Emmett Brown character for my first play through. I might just make him a character in his early 50s just so I can have a roleplaying explanation for why he has such a low strength, agility, endurance stat, etc. etc.

Even the differences between two fairly balanced character builds could be really big.