I think speechcraft and barter have been merged. I also wouldn't be surprised if there's only one armor skill with perks adding to the specialization.

So there would just be Armor under Combat, right?

If Speechcraft and Barter have been merged, that's just 5 skills. What would be the 6th? 4 with no LA.

Yea, just Armor for Combat. Perks could do the separating. Not sure what that 6th Stealth skill could be? I think hand to hand has to fit somewhere though.

I've thought about Unarmed being under Stealth. Maybe you could sneak up on an enemy and snap his neck? That would be cool.

I was thinking the same thing. Unarmed under Stealth. That still could leave another spot under Stealth though.

Tis a mystery.

Just like when you're a low level character working your way to being a master swordsman, it's often best to lay back and be a little stealthy. That doesn't mean sneak should be a combat skill, though.

Anyway, my current skill list guess:

Combat
One-Handed
Two-Handed
Unarmed
Armor
Block
Smithing

Magic
Destruction
Restoration
Illusion
Alteration
Conjuration
Enchanting

Stealth
Sneak
Archery
Speechcraft
Mercantile (with revamped economy and hopefully revamped stealing system, I see this as a possibility)
Security
Alchemy

Combat
One-Handed (sword, axe, mace, dw)
Two-Handed (sword, axe, hammer, staff)
Martial arts (h2h, unarmored, acrobatics)
Fitness (light & heavy armor, athletics)
Block
Smithing

Magic
Destruction
Restoration
Illusion
Alteration
Conjuration
Enchanting

Stealth
Sneak (movement, pickpocket, assasination)
Archery
Speechcraft (persuasion, barter)
Mechanics (security, traps)
??
Alchemy

Now we have three options:
- traditional: mercantile in stealth
- modern: dw in combat, mercantile with speech, martial arts in stealth
- fallout: mercantile with speech, NEW SKILL like survival in stealth

To the discussion about the heavy armored thief: Heavy armor is made for usage in combat, but no one is stopping you from wearing it while using stealth. It will make it easier for the enemies to detect you, but give you a higher chance of winning against a strong opponent. It should still be classified as a combat skill(probably just a generic armor skill), but that doesn't matter much with the new system since there is no specialization or major skills.

To the discussion about the heavy armored thief: Heavy armor is made for usage in combat, but no one is stopping you from wearing it while using stealth. It will make it easier for the enemies to detect you, but give you a higher chance of winning against a strong opponent. It should still be classified as a combat skill(probably just a generic armor skill), but that doesn't matter much with the new system since there is no specialization or major skills.

I hope they at least have a perk helping characters that dont use armor (but are combat orientated). It'll make it harder to play my Hand-to-Hand Dunmer monk without one.

I notice you guys arguing about a master thief using heavy armor would be bad. Notice how he never mentioned anything about his thievery techniques. There are many forms of thievery, he could take the direct confrontation approach like a bandit who robs people threatening them with his blade, he doesn't necessarily have to sneak around, in which case his heavy armor, long sword, and shield would be very useful. Just some technicalities to be pointed out.

As for the skills I like what NightShadow had suggested for the combat skill, Martial arts or named similarly combining hand to hand and acrobats. I'm not sure about unarmored, it made sense both ways having it (Morrowind) and not having it (Oblivion). Increasing it would mean you'd have a higher armor rating than if it were lower because your body was tougher, but at the same time it felt weird that you had an armor rating without the use of actual armor and that's what having your health was for, increasing that would essentially increase your durability. I'm still not too sure, as for acrobatics and athletics did they mention anything related to how those work? I know they supposedly removed them as individuals, so they may have combined them into something new that covers jumping, dodging, running, sprinting, swimming, basically all athletic feats.

As for the armors they could have combined light and heavy armor, and maybe even threw in medium armor if they confirmed 3 branches per skill, it would make sense bringing it back, sort of. If there was no set number of main branches per skill tree then of course that could easily void the whole argument of bringing back medium armor.

As for the Stealth skills, I think they'll have Sneak, Marksman/Archery, Speechcraft (combination of Speechcraft and Mercantile), Alchemy, Security or something of that sort that affects lockpicking, disarming traps, maybe even creating/setting your own traps(?) though they didn't go into detail much about the stealth skills. They've mentioned the whole 1-handed/2-handed weapons skills with Combat and continued mentioning it in interviews, etc, also the removal(?) of athletics, and the addition of Smithing. They've mentioned that the Magic skills were going to be pretty much the same, minus Mysticism which was going to be broken down and dispersed amongst the other Magic skills, Alchemy being moved to Stealth, and Enchanting being added to it. As for Stealth the only thing I heard them talk about aside from moving Alchemy to it, was that Archery was going to be more powerful and require more time to fire, but was about it.

The discussion actually started with light armor and how it may be combined into one armor skill under the combat category with perks for light/heavy specialization. But what's important to mention is that the categories are Combat, Magic, and Stealth, not Combat, Magic, and Thievery. You can be a thief who uses combat skills, but a pure stealth character should ideally not need to use any type of armor - light or heavy. An agile swordsman would get better use out of light armor than a pure stealth character - so IMO it makes more sense to put both armor types under combat as a single skill with specialization perks.

That's not to say that a thief couldn't use light armor, heavy armor, or any type of weapon that they want. But if you make a character that uses those skills, you are making a hybrid class, not a pure stealth character.

I agree, light/heavy should be one skill under combat, I was merely pointing out that the original post about that was that a master thief wouldn't use armor, which of course as I mentioned isn't entirely true, same with assassin. Now a stealthy thief/assassin, definitely, don't use heavy armor, or even armor in general, it gets in the way.

Yeah, but when I think of a "master thief" I think of someone who can get in, take what they want, and get out without anyone ever noticing. I don't think of a bandit who robs someone by the edge of a blade.

So true...and i'm meant to be studying for my a'levels just now

There'd probably be perks concerning various armour types a la a perk where the armour you're waering weighs less/nothing if you are wearing it. Come to think of it I can't think of many perks you could apply to an armour skill so they might leave it out.

At first I thought archery was in stealth but then as we got confirmed light armor and heavy armor skills.. yes its confirmed in a mag... and as we know there are commincation SKILLS.. and as they didnt bother to talk about the supposedly missing combat skilll...


I think combat has to be smithing heavy armor one handed two handed block and archery

Magic we already know is illusion conjuration destruction restoration alteration enchant..

and stealth is light armor mercantile sneak security speechcraft and alchemy

Now the KEY I think is if you center on destruction you see alchemy to enchant.

If you center on the thief I bet you see archery to alchemy

AND if you center on the warrior sign you see smithing to light armor

Or at least thats what I think it might be....

I like the look of this, although I don't see speechcraft and mercantile being separate skills.

I suggested this a few weeks ago, looks much better to me:


Speechcraft has Mercantile built in, seems pretty logical to me
Dual wielding skill makes no sense

I'm not sure about the mercantile and speechcraft being merged. One can have a silver tongue, but know nothing about the economy and how to make it work for you. You could probably use speechcraft to get in good relations with the shop owner and get deals that way, but other than that the two don't really have much in common. I see them merging the armor skill and having different branches for all the kinds of armor they'll have in game. But both are quite possible.

And ya, dual wielding makes no sence.

I'd be shocked if Heavy armor and Light armor haven't been merged.

To me, it looks less realistic than merging Speechcraft&Mercantile. Of course, the RL mercantile doesn't have much to do with speech, but TES mercantile is just convincing a shopkeeper to sell you for a smaller price / buy for a bigger. Can't see what else could take the room it vacates

A lot more of the skills could be merged now because they can have the perks do the specializing.

'Could' doesn't mean 'should'. And since we know there's 18 of them, there have to be some skills to take place of the merged ones.